Where Has All the Latin Gone?

[Brennan_Doherty]

Good article in the New Oxford Review on how important Latin has been to the Church, not just in her liturgy, but in all aspects of her development. Also it offers suggestions on how we can continue to encourage the resurgence of Latin in the Church. You may have to be a subscriber to the New Oxford Review to read the whole article. Here is the concluding paragraph:

"We have forty years of sneering attitudes to overcome. The Latin revival has started, but it needs a lot more help before it becomes generalized. Latin remains one of the things we need most if we are to repair the damage done to the Church by those with no respect for her traditions or culture.

It isn’t enough to say that Latin has something to offer the Church; Latin built the Church, and Latin can build her back up again."

newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=1107-cole

 

[BobP123]

No doubt there’ll be a lot of posters who will give their normal undermining Latin (“God understands all languages”) lecture here but thanks for posting this. I’m a NOR subscriber and I know non-Catholics who read this too.

 

[Windmill]

Here we go again!

I’ll just say, “I’m for more Latin, as per Vatican II.” I sing in a Gregorian chant schola (www.brazoschant.org) and the people here love it. As much as you want to argue the values of immediate comprehension of vernacular, you can’t argue with the fact that the young people all over the world are getting bored with Mass in the vernacular, and they are slowly drifting to the Latin Masses (OF or EF) because 1) they are learning their faith 2) they understand that there is a mystery and a sacrifice occurring at Mass 3) they aren’t seeing that mystery or sacrificial overtone in those Masses where the overuse of the vernacular makes things pedantic and boring.

Hey, can that be said? “Overuse of the vernacular.” V2 never said everything in the vernacular.

Anyway, maybe that’s enough to ignite the fumes…

 

[NPC]

I certainly am all for the greater use of Latin in the Church. I have never had the opportunity to attend a Latin Mass since they are uncommon in my diocese, yet I am in favour of increased celebration of the Traditional Mass! I sing plenty of Latin, in chant and sacred polyphony and it is beautiful - Latin is always poetry! It can have amazing effects on people - one time a friend of mine who does not share in the Catholic Faith, came to Mass specifically to hear the choir. During the Mass the priest chanted in Latin the Consecration (which he does every now and again). After Mass I asked my friend what she thought of the music - she said, “Well the music was great, but the Latin…” She was so impressed - I think it could nearly have converted her! If the Mass, by simply returning to our Latin roots, can so strongly affect even non-Catholics, then what have we got to lose? In my view the Church can only gain from increasing the use of Latin.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

I certainly am all for the greater use of Latin in the Church. I have never had the opportunity to attend a Latin Mass since they are uncommon in my diocese, yet I am in favour of increased celebration of the Traditional Mass! I sing plenty of Latin, in chant and sacred polyphony and it is beautiful - Latin is always poetry! It can have amazing effects on people - one time a friend of mine who does not share in the Catholic Faith, came to Mass specifically to hear the choir. During the Mass the priest chanted in Latin the Consecration (which he does every now and again). After Mass I asked my friend what she thought of the music - she said, “Well the music was great, but the Latin…” She was so impressed - I think it could nearly have converted her! If the Mass, by simply returning to our Latin roots, can so strongly affect even non-Catholics, then what have we got to lose? In my view the Church can only gain from increasing the use of Latin.

Yes, I took a non-Catholic friend to the Traditional Latin Mass with Gregorian chant and it had a similar effect on her. She started crying during the Mass (though I hadn’t noticed until she told me). God bless.

 

[SemperFidelis]

When I was still in the “discernment phase” of converting, my first thought when I heard that Catholics don’t have Mass in Latin any more was “what an absurdity, and what a major bummer.” It’s ironic how there were more protestant-to-Catholic conversions prior to the NO, and that was one of the NOs primary goals. A major loss. I think one of the biggest attractions to protestants is the beauty and sanctity of the Mass. Something you just don’t see too much in the NO. The Catholic Church is the only true Church. It should have a better and different liturgy than the protestants, and everyone else for that matter. Unfortunately today that’s not always true, as you can find Anglican services that are more beautiful and reverant than your common NO. Even for a protestant, it’s sad to see how much we’ve lost in the liturgy.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I’ve sung in a cathedral choir for the last 24 years. For many years we were forced to use the 1940 Episcopalian hymnal because it had English translations of the sequences, etc.

Deo gratias ite Deo gratias! It took our 200th anniversary as a parish and the Cardinal Archbishop of Lyons departing from the script and giving the Apostolic Blessing in Latin to shake things up. Us old fogeys in the choir knew how to respond. The response from the assembled priests was dismal.

And so Latin chants and motets were restored - not to mention the choir loft and pipe organ which were ripped out in the “spirit of Vatican II” when the cathedral was renovated in the mid - 60s.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

When I was still in the “discernment phase” of converting, my first thought when I heard that Catholics don’t have Mass in Latin any more was “what an absurdity, and what a major bummer.” It’s ironic how there were more protestant-to-Catholic conversions prior to the NO, and that was one of the NOs primary goals. A major loss. I think one of the biggest attractions to protestants is the beauty and sanctity of the Mass. Something you just don’t see too much in the NO. The Catholic Church is the only true Church. It should have a better and different liturgy than the protestants, and everyone else for that matter. Unfortunately today that’s not always true, as you can find Anglican services that are more beautiful and reverant than your common NO. Even for a protestant, it’s sad to see how much we’ve lost in the liturgy.

Yes, I agree completely. Particularly since when we stray from our heritage in the liturgy and music we often don’t do as well as the Protestants in regards to things like modern music.

 

[jedi]

Yes, I took a non-Catholic friend to the Traditional Latin Mass with Gregorian chant and it had a similar effect on her. She started crying during the Mass (though I hadn’t noticed until she told me). God bless.

amazing… the reason is because the Holy Spirit is really there, truly exit especially during TLM… latin is the power…

 

[Dempsey1919]

Latin will always be with us, despite the fact that it has fallen out of fashion for 40 years.

My Priest speaks fluent Latin, as well as Hebrew and Ancient Greek so I’ve never experienced the situation were my Church doesn’t have ANY latin.

I’m thinking of learning Latin but I don’t know if I have the time what with University and boxing. I’d love to be able to fully understand the Tridentine Mass one day without the use of a Missal.

Does anyone know how much time it would take to learn Latin so that I could follow the Mass reasonably well? (An estimate would be fine because everyone learns at different rates.)

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

Latin will always be with us, despite the fact that it has fallen out of fashion for 40 years.

My Priest speaks fluent Latin, as well as Hebrew and Ancient Greek so I’ve never experienced the situation were my Church doesn’t have ANY latin.

I’m thinking of learning Latin but I don’t know if I have the time what with University and boxing. I’d love to be able to fully understand the Tridentine Mass one day without the use of a Missal.

Does anyone know how much time it would take to learn Latin so that I could follow the Mass reasonably well? (An estimate would be fine because everyone learns at different rates.)

I’m not sure of the exact time but I think one of the keys is to get materials that focus on ecclesiastical (as opposed to classical) Latin. Ecclesiastical Latin is actually easier to learn from what I’ve heard. I don’t have them in front of me now but I did get a couple of books that focused specifically on the Latin in the Mass and also had answer books you can get. I think that is a good way to go.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I can’t speak Latin nor can I write it. I read Spanish fluently but don’t ask me to speak it.

Everyone is acting as if this is some insurmountable mountain. Good Lord…at the end of the third grade in 1959 I had been trained to be an altar boy. Close to 40 years later and,. even though my chosen language was Spanish, this is not rocket science.

Our ancestors have done it for years. I grew up with it. You young folks, I have every confidence in you that you will prevail. It’s only 40 years since things changed.