Where Have All The Apostates And Anti-Mormons Gone?

[zerinus]

At the risk of starting an argument, I feel it’s important to point out, for those that may not know, that Mormons don’t actually believe in God, they believe in a god, one among many, who were all originally human. They don’t even believe that their god was the first one. Their god has a god, who has a god and so forth. They don’t believe in an eternal, uncreated God, an uncaused cause, who created everything. They believe that the only thing that is eternal, in the Catholic sense of the word, is the matter and energy that make up this universe. Their gods aren’t even capable of creating matter or energy, they can only reorganize what’s already there.

Not true!

Moroni 8:

18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.

D&C 20:

17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

I guess I would have to visit the thread.
Until then, I think I would ask Zerinius directly here if I had a problem with his statements.
He was very polite to me.
All I had to do was ask for clarity.

Thank you. I will be happy to answer your questions any time.

zerinus

 

[zerinus]

Mormonism’s big selling point, the one they emphasize in the missionary lessons, is the need for ongoing revelation to guide the members and the belief that they are led by a living prophet.

But Zerinus, a sola scriptura Mormon, does not believe anything the living prophets teach unless and until it is canonized in their scriptures, which happens very rarely and usually only happens many decades after the teaching is first taught.

Not true! LDS Church leaders have advised Church members to test everyone’s doctrine by the standard works. If it conforms to the standard works, it is true; if it doesn’t, it is speculation; and if it contradicts it, it is false. That is what I go by. See here.

zerinus

 

[why_me]

I think that Mormons and Catholics (and their respective churches) get along just fine. It is only apostates and anti-Mormons (masquerading as Catholics) that like everyone to think otherwise.

zerinus

This is perhaps true. Most catholics that I know are not antimormon and show respect toward mormons. Others do not know much about the lds faith but can repeat the ‘mormons are not christian’ phrase out of ignorance which is forgivable.

But this board does have some hardnosed antimormons and mormon apostates but there number is very few.

 

[why_me]

Once the standard antimormon rhetoric is refuted, it becomes difficult to attack the lds church. For after all, the lds church is a good church that teaches people to be good christians. I can find no fault within mormonism itself. And lds people can be good and bad like everyone else. But the lds church has a great value structure and that should be appreciated by all in society.

 

[1holycatholic]

But Zerinus, a sola scriptura Mormon, does not believe anything the living prophets teach unless and until it is canonized in their scriptures, which happens very rarely and usually only happens many decades after the teaching is first taught.

So Zerinus has rejected most of the deepest and most unique Mormon teachings, including the King Follet Discourse, eternal progression and and other things that are taught in their current Sunday school, priesthood and seminary manuals. He doesn’t know it yet, but he also rejects most of what is taught in the temple endowment.

Weird.

Would that mean Zenrius is the apostate’s apostate?

 

[zerinus]

But this board does have some hardnosed antimormons and mormon apostates but there number is very few.

I agree, in general. But on this board they exert a disproportionate influence because there are more of them than Mormons (or Catholics symathetic to Mormonism) posting here. Sombody visiting this board will think that all Catholics are anti-Mormons, which of course is not true in the outside world.

zerinus

 

[scipio337]

I agree, in general. But on this board they exert a disproportionate influence because there are more of them than Mormons (or Catholics symathetic to Mormonism) posting here. Sombody visiting this board will think that all Catholics are anti-Mormons, which of course is not true in the outside world.

zerinus

Does being “anti-Mormon” mean refuting false LDS beliefs?

Catholics on this site are “pro” truth. This would make them ontologically opposed to LDS beliefs. If you can’t handle the foundations of your faith being challenged (in a respectable way, of course), perhaps you’d be better off visiting the echo chamber of one of the LDS forums?

 

[majick275]

What is “Lying for the Lord” and “LOF”?

Lying for the Lord is an old LDS principle in which it’s okay to distort the truth as long as the end result is the building up of the LDS church. this was started in the polygamy days when the law was after the LDS leaders for refusing to obey federal laws.

LOF is the lectures on faith that used to be canonized scripture but were later “demoted” in the LDS church. they directly contradict other LDS teachings so they had to be quietly removed from scripture. they were used in Joseph Smith’s school of the prophets though so they couldn’t be denounced.

 

[Jerusha]

As I have said before, Why Me and Zerinus have provided me with excellent opportunities to test out my ideas and lines of reasoning on LDS people. Their reactions have provided me with guidance in my writing project. They are very willing guinea pigs in the battle against Brighamite lies.

I thank both of you!!! :tiphat:

particularly that you both come to a realization of the truth.

 

[hosemonkey]

The image I had on yesterdy was not of the Horse Head Nebula. That was a differnet image. The image of today is of the Horse Head Nebula. But hurry up and look, because I might change it tomorrow!

zerinus

Zerinus,
Your signature is very much like mormon doctrine, hurry up and look at it, because it might change tomorrow.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Is an apostate a former mormon, or just anyone who is not a mormon?
How do you define an anti-mormon? Anyone who is not, or just mean types that say things that are untrue about your religion?

Thanks!

Monica

A former Mormon—and not just a former Mormon. I define it more narrowly than that. A former Mormon who has chosen to actively oppose it and fight against it.

Lack of Twelve Apostles makes for Apostate Christianity.

zerinus

Well, I can’t say that had expected anything more from a representative of an Apostate institution.

zerinus

Our belief in the Apostasy of the early Christian church is a fundamental principle of our religion. It is not something we can compromise on. It is not intended as disrespectful of any particular church. It is equally applicable to all churches, not just to Catholic.

zerinus

I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church—much more so than for Protestant churches for example. But no denying that the early Christianity apostatized.

zerinus

We think traditional Christianity is Apostate.

zerinus

I think that Mormons and Catholics (and their respective churches) get along just fine. It is only apostates and anti-Mormons (masquerading as Catholics) that like everyone to think otherwise.

zerinus

 

[hosemonkey]

All the Rodney King rhetoric (Can’t we all just get along?) is fine only up to a point.I do not condemn individual mormons for their being deluded, they are victims of the false religion which has ensnared them. My quarrel is with the octopus-like organization that continues to pull the unsuspecting into it’s orbit by means of misinformation and outright deception. If the mormon organization was up front as to their teachings, I would simply say “buyer beware” and allow everyone to make their own decision. But allow an informed decision. But dishonesty seems to be the hallmark of mormonism along with tedium (see zerinus) In all the threads pertaining to mormonism, the same old tired arguments in defense of mormonism come forth. No matter how mormons try to dress it up, mormonism is still a bogus “religion” that requires a suspension of logic and intellect in order to be believed.

 

[dzheremi]

Zerinus,
Your signature is very much like mormon doctrine, hurry up and look at it, because it might change tomorrow.

Hahaha. The image itself is also appropriate for Mormonism: Its outward appearance is very pretty, but it is vastly empty and devoid of intelligent life.

 

[grandfather]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerinus
A former Mormon—and not just a former Mormon. I define it more narrowly than that. A former Mormon who has chosen to actively oppose it and fight against it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerinus
Lack of Twelve Apostles makes for Apostate Christianity.

zerinus

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerinus
Well, I can’t say that had expected anything more from a representative of an Apostate institution.

zerinus

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerinus
Our belief in the Apostasy of the early Christian church is a fundamental principle of our religion. It is not something we can compromise on. It is not intended as disrespectful of any particular church. It is equally applicable to all churches, not just to Catholic.

zerinus

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerinus
I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church—much more so than for Protestant churches for example. But no denying that the early Christianity apostatized.

zerinus

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerinus
We think traditional Christianity is Apostate.

zerinus

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerinus
I think that Mormons and Catholics (and their respective churches) get along just fine. It is only apostates and anti-Mormons (masquerading as Catholics) that like everyone to think otherwise.

zerinus

It seems impossible that he does not see his self-contradictions, and that he is making it up as he goes along, as Mormonism does.

 

[mfbukowski]

It seems impossible that he does not see his self-contradictions, and that he is making it up as he goes along, as Mormonism does.

I certainly do not need to defend zerinus, he is more than capable of demolishing any lies found on this thread, but at a certain point it becomes so obvious that you are distorting all that is being said, I had to put in my two cents.

There are no conflicts in any of these positions. All he has said is that anti mormons are those who oppose Mormonism actively. He respects the Catholic church, as do I incidentally, which we both recognize as “apostate” for many reasons, including the ones he cites.

The issue about mistaken prophets is no different from mistaken popes, women popes, the inquistion, crusades and priiest child abuse, schisms, heretics and burning at the stake. I don’t recall any Mormon inquisitions or even though I might be tempted, burning any anti-mormons at the stake. If you want to throw historical stones, as prodigalson1 would say, please notice that you are living in glass houses. Human beings make mistakes.

Many here are no better than this chick guy you so love.

The problem is that collectively, no one here can see the beam in your own eyes, so no honest discussion takes place.

As I have said before, every anti-mormon argument on this thread is a straw man.

Every one. If you don’t want to learn the truth, it is your perogative. If you want to learn the truth, LISTEN.

Ramadan started today. The crescent moon has appeared. Ever see any crescent moons in catholic iconography? Where did that come from? Go ahead and research that one.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I certainly do not need to defend zerinus, he is more than capable of demolishing any lies found on this thread, but at a certain point it becomes so obvious that you are distorting all that is being said, I had to put in my two cents.

There are no conflicts in any of these positions. All he has said is that anti mormons are those who oppose Mormonism actively. He respects the Catholic church, as do I incidentally, which we both recognize as “apostate” for many reasons, including the ones he cites.

The issue about mistaken prophets is no different from mistaken popes, women popes, the inquistion, crusades and priiest child abuse, schisms, heretics and burning at the stake. I don’t recall any Mormon inquisitions or even though I might be tempted, burning any anti-mormons at the stake. If you want to throw historical stones, as prodigalson1 would say, please notice that you are living in glass houses. Human beings make mistakes.

Many here are no better than this chick guy you so love.

The problem is that collectively, no one here can see the beam in your own eyes, so no honest discussion takes place.

As I have said before, every anti-mormon argument on this thread is a straw man.

Every one. If you don’t want to learn the truth, it is your perogative. If you want to learn the truth, LISTEN.

Ramadan started today. The crescent moon has appeared. Ever see any crescent moons in catholic iconography? Where did that come from? Go ahead and research that one.

Red herrings and ad hominens do not support your argument.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Red herrings and ad hominens do not support your argument.

That’s all they’ve got.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

If being an “anti-mormon” means I know and tell other people that LDS was created and founded by an upstate NY conman who did bank fraud, incited a mini-civil war, claimed other men’s wives for his own, had sex with a fifteen year old girl, read religious “revelations” out of his hat, made up a claim of “first vision” and subsequent persection that no one else can corraborate (and Joseph Smith Jr’s various tellings of the “first vision” contradict each other), made ludicrous contradicted-by-the-evidence archaelogical, anthropological, biological, linguistic, etc… “claims”, approved a faction of vigilante killers (Danites), ordered a mob to destroy the press of a former follower who didnt like Smith making moves on the follower’s wife, and finally died in a Mid-West shoot out–and his sucessor’s following his example, set up a theocratic dictatorship in the West which eventually lead to the Mountain Meadow Massacre, almost causing a mini-civil war with the Federal government…

guess than means I’m an “anti-mormon” and I’m still here

 

[zerinus]

Your Presbyterian friend no doubt thinks the same about the Catholic Church; but it suits his purpose not to say it to your face right now.

It’s exponents here are intellectually dishonest (and sometimes just plain liars) will adopt just about any tactic as a means to try and prostleyise to us . . .

That is a pretty good description of apostates and anti-Mormons, thank you. Nicely put.

. . . and frankly Mormonism has no basis in either logic or faith. It’s a sham ‘church’ founded by a confidence trickster looking towards his own benefits only.

Well, they called Jesus “Beelzebub, the prince of devils,” so no surprise that wicked men should call his disciples such:

Matthew 10:

24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

But wickedness will be exposed in the day when the “secrets of the hearts” shall be revealed, and rewarded accordingly; and the righteous will also receive their good reward:

Matthew 5:

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Matthew 12:

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Matthew 23:

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

zerinus