Where Have All The Apostates And Anti-Mormons Gone?

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tundramom said:
I disagree completely. By your definition, z, I am indeed an apostate and an anti-Mormon. Proudly so.

I am also proudly and humbly Catholic. I grew up in Utah County. I am an ex-Mormon. I have a right and an obligation to “fight” against a “religion” that has done so much harm to my family for generations.

in Christ
Steph
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What has Mormonism done to your family?—apart from making them Mormons—LOL!

zerinus
 
mfbukowski said:
I am curious if you are a baptized member of the LDS church. I was raised Catholic myself. Have you been endowed?
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Of course he’s been “endowed.” He’s been endowed with the spirit of error and confusion. How do you think he became schizophrenic?
 
mfbukowski said:
Yeah, you work on that one and maybe you will figure out that we have been right all along. “Those who have ears, let them hear.” You’re just short some ears, that’s all.
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you really think that’s the key to “proving” mormonism? looks like some folks have itching ears…😃
 
mfbukowski said:
Yeah, you work on that one and maybe you will figure out that we have been right all along. “Those who have ears, let them hear.” You’re just short some ears, that’s all.
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Of course! The fact that these beliefs aren’t held by any major sect in Christianity, at any time in history, compiled with the fact that the ceremony closely resembles Masonic rituals is only further proof of my own shortcomings!

Thanks!

Is that your only comment, Cochise, or are you going to stand by the inference that “Popes and Priests” are agents of Satan?
 
zerinus said:
I haven’t gone anywhere! 😃

zerinus
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Great. Let’s see if we can have a dialougue. 😉

How do you stand by your previous comments regarding the “Great and Abominal Church” given that:

A) There is only one church that was capable of doing the things stated in 1 Nephi 13

and

B) The reference in the (at least) 1931-1984 endowment ceremony of the “Popes and Priests” as paid agents of Satan?
 
zerinus said:
I consider it a legitimate critique (or even counter-critique, if you want to think if it that way) of Catholic doctrine. Catholics make all kinds of (often unjustified) criticisms of LDS doctrine.
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Aren’t the majority of criticisms in response to unfounded accusations against the Catholic Church?

Mormon doctrines or teachings are anti-Catholic by nature, putting Catholics in a defensive position. Once a discussion progresses, Mormons OFTEN admit there is no “real” proof except for a “warm fuzzy” feeling.

When Catholics question Mormon teachings, using Mormon documents, you call it an unjustified attack. We do not visit Mormon websites and present a defense or an offense. Mormons on the other hand, clearly by their presence here, make those unfounded accusations against Catholicism.
I think I am perfectly justified in making a criticism of Catholic doctrine. That article I wrote is not the only one that criticizes Catholic doctrine. There are several more, such as the one on the Mass, transubstantiation, my response to the Catholic preacher Vic Scaravilli, and to a lesser extent in some of the other posts. If I really wanted to be mean to the Catholic Church, I could do a lot worse. But that is not my intention. The objective is above all to teach correct LDS doctrine; but also, when appropriate, to point to obvious flaws in the theologies of other churches who are so vocal in their criticisms of us. I think that is a perfectly legitimate thing for me to do. As I said, I had had this discussion with other Catholics on this board before; that is why I decided to post a message on it so that I could refer to it in future discussions.
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zerinus
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I’ve already witnessed Mormon mud slinging, or throwing stones in glass houses if you will, it always seems to end up angering Mormons when we start a real apple to apple comparison. If you want to do your “worst”, I’m sure it can be refuted, as it always has been. It just causes Mormons to use quips, threats of no more responses (which proves to be untrue) and sound bytes, as is evident in this very thread, like they’ve proved something they haven’t in reality.

One question, in hopes that the truth be clearly spoken, do you have any desire to proseltize any Catholics with your posts or with your biased blog?
 
"cyberjacques:
At the risk of starting an argument, I feel it’s important to point out, for those that may not know, that Mormons don’t actually believe in God, they believe in a god, one among many, who were all originally human. They don’t even believe that their god was the first one. Their god has a god, who has a god and so forth. They don’t believe in an eternal, uncreated God, an uncaused cause, who created everything. They believe that the only thing that is eternal, in the Catholic sense of the word, is the matter and energy that make up this universe. Their gods aren’t even capable of creating matter or energy, they can only reorganize what’s already there.
zerinus said:
Not true!
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Moroni 8:

18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.

D&C 20:

17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them.

zerinus
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Your disagreement is not with us, Zerinus, but with your own church’s current teachings:
This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46).
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-Gospel Principles Manual, Chapter 47
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Don’t you attend seminary and/or Sunday school? How do you react when these things are taught in those classes? I think you are ashamed of your church’s teachings so you have concocted this sola scriptura excuse to deny those teachings while pretending to be a TBM.
 
scipio337 said:
]Of course, LDS have no emnity towards Catholics, and the “Great and Abominable Church” really isn’t the Roman Catholic Church (although you’d be hard pressed to find a one “church” who would be capable of responsible for killing the Apostles, the “Great Apostasy” (1 Ne. 13:5-60, instrumental in corrupting the Bible and removing from it “the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb” (1 Ne. 13:34))

Transcipt of the 1984 version of the Temple Endowment Ceremony. See in what high regard Catholics are held? Not only is the RCC the “Great and Abominable Church”, but its “Popes and Priests” are agents of Satan. There are no transcripts of endowments prior to the 1931 version, but this was in the ceremony from at least then until 1984, 53 years of smearing Catholics in their little Masonic “borrowed” secre… I mean “sacred” ceremony.

I included a fair amount of the ceremony just to let others see what LDS theology consists of, putting the meat before the agitprop.

Enjoy!
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The Mormons have changed their tactics. We are still the Great Abominable Church, but they outwardly say nice things about us now. They realize Christians see them as non-Christians and don’t like it.

No wonder why they want to keep there ceremonies secret. Once anyone see it they are exposed for what they are.
 
grandfather said:
The Mormons have changed their tactics. We are still the Great Abominable Church, but they outwardly say nice things about us now. They realize Christians see them as non-Christians and don’t like it.
No wonder why they want to keep there ceremonies secret. Once anyone see it they are exposed for what they are.
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Their so-called “secrets” are available on the internet. I think that because mormons are not told the truth about the “endowment”, when it actually happens to them they are either freaked out or totally unimpressed at what is “revealed” to them. It is a rather childish parody of freemasonry and certainly no “secrets” are there to be revealed. The grips, signs and tokens smack of some frat-boy “ritual” and even the “sacred” Pay Lay Ale has been changed. As a matter of fact, this whole “given from Heaven” charade has been changed many times to conform to the shifting sands of mormon "doctrine."The whole concept of grown men and women parading around in funny outfits, wearing Satan’s “Emblem of Power and Priesthood” is laughable. BTW, if women are given the “Emblem of Power and Priesthood”, why aren’t they “priests” too.
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scipio337 said:
Great. Let’s see if we can have a dialougue. 😉

How do you stand by your previous comments regarding the “Great and Abominal Church” given that:

A) There is only one church that was capable of doing the things stated in 1 Nephi 13
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What Church is that?
B) The reference in the (at least) 1931-1984 endowment ceremony of the “Popes and Priests” as paid agents of Satan?
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I cannot discuss LDS temple ceremonies outside the temple. I advise you not to trust what you read on anti-Mormon websites.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
I consider it a legitimate critique (or even counter-critique, if you want to think if it that way) of Catholic doctrine. Catholics make all kinds of (often unjustified) criticisms of LDS doctrine. I think I am perfectly justified in making a criticism of Catholic doctrine.
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Earlier in this thread you agreed that anti-Catholicism and anti-Mormonism was wrong. Seeing as that you now admit to writing anti-Catholic blogs you are a hypocrite. Oh and you are not justified. Mormons throught history have made vicious, unneccesary comments about other religions. Combine that with the fact that Mormons try to proselytize everyone and you can understand why Catholics take a defensive and oftentimes an offensive stance on Mormonism. If you see flaws within our faith then feel free to point them out in a non-vicious way. We will be glad to refute all of them.
 
zerinus said:
What Church is that?

I cannot discuss LDS temple ceremonies outside the temple. I advise you not to trust what you read on anti-Mormon websites.

zerinus
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So you are accusing all former mormons of lying? You are accusing all websites that reveal mormon “temple rituals” of lying? To what purpose? Do you honestly think that any so-called “secrets” will not eventually come to light? You are incredibly naive.
 
zerinus said:
Why would you advise that? Are you saying the goofy ceremonies on the net purported to be Mormon ceremonies are false? If they are false then say so. You don’t have to discuss the real thing. If you will not say they are false, they must be accurate.

Quite a few people have left Mormonism and revealed what went on there. Are they all liars? Are all disaffected Mormons lying? If you tell others not to trust them please give a reason. Why should anyone trust you? Why should anyone believe what you have to say over what ex-Mormons say?*
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grandfather said:
Why would you advise that? Are you saying the goofy ceremonies on the net purported to be Mormon ceremonies are false? If they are false then say so. You don’t have to discuss the real thing. If you will not say they are false, they must be accurate.
Quite a few people have left Mormonism and revealed what went on there. Are they all liars? Are all disaffected Mormons lying? If you tell others not to trust them please give a reason. Why should anyone trust you? Why should anyone believe what you have to say over what ex-Mormons say?
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Amen!! Good post! C’mon zerinus and you other mormons, put up or shut up.
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zerinus said:
What Church is that?

I cannot discuss LDS temple ceremonies outside the temple. I advise you not to trust what you read on anti-Mormon websites.

zerinus
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The temple ceremony has been audio recorded and put online for all to hear. That’s that.
 
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