Where have the bishop's put their gloves?

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Ok I couldn’t find the answer online, so maybe I could figure it out here.
Does anyone know the reason why bishops (mostly, if not all pre-Vatican II) used to wear gloves in public and for Masses??
Why don’t they wear them anymore?
 
Because it isn’t required, they are not worn. But I am almost certain that they are permitted in the Ordinary Form.

Hence why bishops never wear pontifical dalmatics (except il Papa), never wear the cappa magna, and never use the seventh pontifical candle (again, except il Papa) in the context of OF liturgy. This is part of the utilitarian attitude, methinks. But I dunno, I wager most bishops aren’t liturgy nerds like many of us here are. Although I did see one picture of the Patriarch of Venice, Bishop Francesco Moraglia use a cappa, and wore dalmatic and gloves and also used the pontifical candle in an OF Mass recently.

🙂
 
Wow!!
So if they did decide to wear them, the gloves could only be worn for a Tridentine Mass and not for Novus Ordo?
 
iProfess said:
Wow!!
So if they did decide to wear them, the gloves could only be worn for a Tridentine Mass and not for Novus Ordo?
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The Ordinary Form is the Novus Ordo. Yes, they can be worn for the Novus Ordo.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Because it isn’t required, they are not worn. But I am almost certain that they are permitted in the Ordinary Form.

Hence why bishops never wear pontifical dalmatics (except il Papa), never wear the cappa magna,** and never use the seventh pontifical candle **(again, except il Papa) in the context of OF liturgy.
🙂
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That is not excluded in the OF liturgy, it is only that there is no specific number defined (other than ‘more than one’, since ‘candles’ is plural)

There were seven candles on the altar when Bishop Byrnes ( aux bishop of Detroit) said the Mass at my son’s Confirmation last week

Then again, our archdiocese has been known to have some of it’s bishops know and regularly say, the Pontifical EF Mass, and +Byrnes was the assistant rector at our Seminary, so he knows the theology of the liturgy well.
 
Brendan said:
That is not excluded in the OF liturgy, it is only that there is no specific number defined (other than ‘more than one’, since ‘candles’ is plural)

There were seven candles on the altar when Bishop Byrnes ( aux bishop of Detroit) said the Mass at my son’s Confirmation last week

Then again, our archdiocese has been known to have some of it’s bishops know and regularly say, the Pontifical EF Mass, and +Byrnes was the assistant rector at our Seminary, so he knows the theology of the liturgy well.
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I know it isn’t excluded. I meant that all of those are expressly allowed in the OF, but are rarely (and rarely enough to say “never” as a generalization, IMO) used.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Because it isn’t required, they are not worn. But I am almost certain that they are permitted in the Ordinary Form.

Hence why bishops never wear pontifical dalmatics (except il Papa), never wear the cappa magna, and never use the seventh pontifical candle (again, except il Papa) in the context of OF liturgy. This is part of the utilitarian attitude, methinks. But I dunno, I wager most bishops aren’t liturgy nerds like many of us here are. Although I did see one picture of the Patriarch of Venice, Bishop Francesco Moraglia use a cappa, and wore dalmatic and gloves and also used the pontifical candle in an OF Mass recently.

🙂
Click to expand...
I’m not sure what a “pontifical candle” is but seven altar candles are common for OF Masses celebrated by bishops. The only change I note is that one is the candles is no longer a bugia.
 
The directions I have seen, from the GIRM I think, require 2, 4 or 6 candles for mass and 7 if a bishop is celebrating.
 
iProfess said:
Ok I couldn’t find the answer online, so maybe I could figure it out here.
Does anyone know the reason why bishops (mostly, if not all pre-Vatican II) used to wear gloves in public and for Masses??
Why don’t they wear them anymore?
Click to expand...
Same reason why you don’t wear a suit, hat and gloves when you go out. Same reason why it is possible to go into most nice resturants and be seated without wearing a jacket.

We are a simpler, more casual society. Fashions change, even vestment fashions. Formal attire like white gloves is out for almost everyone.

Also the same practical considerations that contributed to lay people giving up things like gloves on a summer day, or dry-clean only dress slacks, probably contributed to the bishops decisions as well.
 
Brendan said:
That is not excluded in the OF liturgy, it is only that there is no specific number defined (other than ‘more than one’, since ‘candles’ is plural)

There were seven candles on the altar when Bishop Byrnes ( aux bishop of Detroit) said the Mass at my son’s Confirmation last week

Then again, our archdiocese has been known to have some of it’s bishops know and regularly say, the Pontifical EF Mass, and +Byrnes was the assistant rector at our Seminary, so he knows the theology of the liturgy well.
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Our current bishop (and your former auxiliary bishop), the Most Rev. Daniel Flores, has on occasion worn the pontifical dalmatic.
 
Mrs_Sally said:
Same reason why you don’t wear a suit, hat and gloves when you go out. Same reason why it is possible to go into most nice resturants and be seated without wearing a jacket.

We are a simpler, more casual society. Fashions change, even vestment fashions. Formal attire like white gloves is out for almost everyone.

Also the same practical considerations that contributed to lay people giving up things like gloves on a summer day, or dry-clean only dress slacks, probably contributed to the bishops decisions as well.
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It’s just horrible, isn’t it?
 
Few people who understand the history of the “sack suit” mourn the fact that its use is pretty much relegated to politicians, lawyers and some CPAs today.
 
Jegudiel said:
Few people who understand the history of the “sack suit” mourn the fact that its use is pretty much relegated to politicians, lawyers and some CPAs today.
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I don’t see many politicians or lawyers wearing sack suits anymore. Most wear proper jackets. The American soft-shoulder, dartless 60s-traddie look isn’t much popular in fashion anymore. Although I do quite like it personally.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I don’t see many politicians or lawyers wearing sack suits anymore. Most wear proper jackets. The American soft-shoulder, dartless 60s-traddie look isn’t much popular in fashion anymore. Although I do quite like it personally.
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Do you know what a “sack suit” is? It’s an extremely conservative/traditional cut Brooks Brothers or Saville Row suit. I have no idea what a “proper jacket” is.

I think those that feel every male should wear a suit and tie to Mass would feel differently if they knew the history of the sack suit and just how (relatively) short of a time they remained in the mainstream.
 
I am reminded of the time that one of our parishioners invited a couple of young Mormon missionaries to attend Mass after having appeared at her doorstep earlier in the week. They came to the Saturday (notoriously casual) Vigil Mass, both wearing conservative suits and ties, as LDS men are expected to dress for Sunday services. They were soon surrounded by Catholics in T-shirts, shorts, and generally sloppy attire. They seemed as if they felt totally out of place and were eager to get out of there, but at least waited until Mass had ended.
 
Jegudiel said:
Do you know what a “sack suit” is? It’s an extremely conservative/traditional cut Brooks Brothers or Saville Row suit. I have no idea what a “proper jacket” is.

I think those that feel every male should wear a suit and tie to Mass would feel differently if they knew the history of the sack suit and just how (relatively) short of a time they remained in the mainstream.
Click to expand...
A sack suit is a suit in which the jacket has no front darts, thus giving it a looser and less tailored look. I am well aware of what a sack suit is.
 
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