G
guanophore
Guest
That IS wearing your hair shirt!
- Status
E
Evania
Guest
Dear OP,
Do you have a spiritual director?
Do you have a spiritual director?
F
fred_conty
Guest
St. Teresa’s statement that prayer is more a matter of loving than thinking. She also offers some thoughts on penance.
“If we never look at our Lord, or think of what we owe Him, and of the death which He suffered
for our sakes, I do not see how we get to know Him or to do good works in His service. For what
can be the value of faith without good works, or of works which are not united with the merits
of our Lord Jesus Christ?"
Prayer and self-indulgence do not go together.
The important thing, according to the mind of St. Teresa, is not a lot of thinking but much
loving.
“It is most important for souls, when they begin to practice prayer, to start detaching
themselves from every kind of deliberate pleasure except God: and to enter upon their prayer
with one sole determination, to help Christ to carry His cross."
It is the same with athletes. They can exorcise, and get sleep and so on. But if they continue to smoke, eat donuts and candy and drink alcohol and get fat, then the other stuff they are doing will fail. They have to learn that big little word “no”. It takes both dissiplines to be successful.
“If we never look at our Lord, or think of what we owe Him, and of the death which He suffered
for our sakes, I do not see how we get to know Him or to do good works in His service. For what
can be the value of faith without good works, or of works which are not united with the merits
of our Lord Jesus Christ?"
Prayer and self-indulgence do not go together.
The important thing, according to the mind of St. Teresa, is not a lot of thinking but much
loving.
“It is most important for souls, when they begin to practice prayer, to start detaching
themselves from every kind of deliberate pleasure except God: and to enter upon their prayer
with one sole determination, to help Christ to carry His cross."
It is the same with athletes. They can exorcise, and get sleep and so on. But if they continue to smoke, eat donuts and candy and drink alcohol and get fat, then the other stuff they are doing will fail. They have to learn that big little word “no”. It takes both dissiplines to be successful.
R
Rosebud77
Guest
THANK YOU! Counting the minutes here until my next pain meds and even that will only ease slightly. If you really are free of pain why not undertake humble hard work that will help those in need? Work that you might not like the idea of…My garden needs help!
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Bonnie
Guest
That’s a great idea! I no longer have chronic pain (tho I fear its return) and can second your idea for penance. Hurting oneself for penance “helps” only the penitent (helps in quotes cause I can’t see hitting oneself to be spiritually helpful). Doing helpful things for others at the cost of time & energy really helps both.
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guanophore
Guest
I was listening to Catholic radio last night and heard this passage read:
21“Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22(referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.Col. 2
So what does have value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh?
B
Bookcat
Guest
Such was not about Christian Mortification but groups or persons that forbade various things…
B
Bookcat
Guest
Good article: holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/guests/michaelgiesler/corporalmortification.asp
And yes when it comes to the penances like the hair shirt - spiritual direction is important.
And yes when it comes to the penances like the hair shirt - spiritual direction is important.
V
voiceofpaula
Guest
You can try exercising. Painful and good for your body!
B
Bookcat
Guest
Now lets not get carried away…You can try exercising. Painful and good for your body!
(one needs a good confessor and a decree from ones Bishop for that…)
D
Dorothy
Guest
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wild_thing
Guest
Trust me, you need to ask your confessor before you get into corporal penances, i.e. anything more than the Church asks. There is just way too much potential for error in these practices. Some posters have already mentioned pride, or taxing your body beyond it’s strength, etc. St. Therese of Liseaux isn’t the only one who warned against extreme penance. St. Francis de Sales, St. Aloysius Gonzaga (after realizing his error in the rigid mortifications of his adolescence), St. Faustina…I could go on, but you get the point. I’m not saying that God isn’t calling you to this type of discipline, but you will never be sure until you ask your regular confessor or a spiritual director. Obedience is much more pleasing to God than hair shirts.
M
Maddie26
Guest
Read on.
Col 3:1-4
You have been raised to life with Christ, so set your hearts on the things that are in heaven, where Christ sits on His throne at the right side of God. Keep your minds fixed on things there, not on things here on earth.
The answer isn’t in dwelling on the needs of the flesh and battling to subdue it. If you struggle with sexual immorality you shouldn’t spend all day sitting in your room alone with a computer. No, the best thing to do is flee temptation, to go somewhere else, do something else, fill your mind with good things so there is less room for the bad. The same goes for other temptations. If you are ruled by your stomach you won’t escape thinking about food all the time by fasting. If you are hungry you will think about food. Then you get cranky with the people around you because you want something you can’t have, all the while feeling self-righteous because you’re doing so great at fasting and no one else is doing so well, sinners. This is why my Novice Mistress forbade Novices to take on further fasting beyond what the rest of the community did. We were taught not to simply repress our desires but to sublimate them- not to just say no, no, but to do something positive that provided an outlet.
Think on the things that are above, things that are eternal. Corporal mortification should be undertaken on the advice of a Spiritual Director. Meanwhile, serve the Body of Christ, preach the Word, heal the sick, bear the burdens of those around you, pray and praise and love. All of these are much harder than wearing a hair shirt.
Yes unfortunately he always goes on my side of the bed to do it.Sounds like you are speaking from experience.
F
Faithdancer
Guest
I use a riding crop, and only on occasions of lust. It doesn’t cause any lasting damage, and I certainly don’t feel proud about it. Brother body needs chastisement at times.
I agree that obedience, prayer, study of difficult material (though don’t let that in turn be a source of pride) and offering up the daily irritations and irritating people as mortifications are very helpful tactics. I agree that bloodletting and scarring one’s self are over the top. Exercise doesn’t really count because it is ultimately pleasurable (endorphins).
As far as spiritual directors, around here they are typically very difficult to find, unless you are comfortable with someone who is into enneagrams, or mixing yoga with Christian prayer, or some other such New Age nonsense.
I agree that obedience, prayer, study of difficult material (though don’t let that in turn be a source of pride) and offering up the daily irritations and irritating people as mortifications are very helpful tactics. I agree that bloodletting and scarring one’s self are over the top. Exercise doesn’t really count because it is ultimately pleasurable (endorphins).
As far as spiritual directors, around here they are typically very difficult to find, unless you are comfortable with someone who is into enneagrams, or mixing yoga with Christian prayer, or some other such New Age nonsense.
D
Deo_Gratias42
Guest
It’s a type of whip used for riding horses. Just because something doesn’t cause physical damage, doesn’t mean it won’t cause psychological damage. I strongly discourage any type of whipping to overcome lust, especially when one uses it at the time of temptation. The reason being is that the brain will become conditioned to associate lustrous desires with physical pain, and will eventually cause such actions to be a substitute for sexual release. Such a corporal mortification requires the very strong supervision of a competent spiritual director. If you can’t get one, then you don’t engage in such a mortification. Obedience is a greater mortification than giving in to our own self will.
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
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Faithdancer
Guest
I’m not letting no “spiritual director” near me with no riding crop or anything else. And they expect to get paid, too!
And as far as lust becoming associated with pain, well, that’s kind of the point.
G
guanophore
Guest
That means he loves you best.
- Status