Where in CCC is God All-KNOWING?

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Then why does God often ask people to hold him accountable to his word?

For example…

Sounds very much like God is demanding that people hold him accountable to his word.

In fact, how many times do the Scriptures say to trust the Lord?

How can God ask us to trust him, and even punish us when we do not trust him, if he isn’t expecting us to believe him?

And again…

To be honest, there’s just too many Scriptural passages to quote where people are blessed for trusting him and not blessed for not trusting him. The Scriptures overwhelmingly portray the Lord as one who demands we trust him and that we call upon his promises-- because he’s trustworthy.

God holds himself accountable to his own word whether we trust him or not.

**I don’t know why you think I’m suggesting God does not require us to trust Him. **​

**I’m not talking about that - that He is to be trusted, & and that it is a sin not to believe Him, goes without saying; my point was that there is no appeal from the judgement of God to any other. Which I would have thought also went without saying. Unless, of course, there is a God Whose Will can override the Will of God ? Which is absurd. **

Trust is not the issue - the absolute & unbounded authority of God, from which there is no appeal whatever, is the issue. God is an Absolute Ruler - not some godlet one can appeal from. **When God has spoken - that is the end of the matter: all that remains, is for His creatures to obey Him. ** ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

well, no, I’m not at all questioning predest. or omniscience as Catholicism understands it. and Ott is careful to draw the distinction between Catholic pred to Hell, and Calvin’s version. Calvin’s version was evidently, God simply says, “this person will be damned before I even consider what they are going to do” as opposed to the RCC which is, “I have foreseen and allowed that this person will not make it BASED ON THEIR FORESEEN SINS”.

​

But this is also my point, why are these terms so buried in the CCC. I would think that the CCC could just come and blurt Ott’s treatment of these things so as to silence, say, Open Theists, amongst other heresies, which would include ultra-liberal theologians who teach at Catholic colleges that God doesn’t know the future.

##** I think it’s a pity that they are buried away. The 1994 French edition & the Latin edition of 1997 are no more** forthcoming.** On balance, the Latin seems to have the best index in print - though the best index overall seems to be that of the 1997 English edition at scborromeo.org ##**

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I don’t know why you think I’m suggesting God does not require us to trust Him.

To be fair, it sounded that way when you said Calvin’s God is no more monstrous than that of St.Thomas.

Calvin’s God, for all intensive purposes, appears to predestine people to hell for reasons entirely outside their own ability to control. Spauline is correct when he says that Calvin’s God, using double-predestination, esentially says that some will go to hell no matter what they do or don’t do, even before God considers what they will do. God’s judgement, in this Calvinisitc sense, is simply an irresistable predestination for which people can do absolutely nothing to avoid-- and it’s a very cruel doctrine.

I don’t think St.Thomas’s God (our Catholic God) actually does that. God fore-ordains the paths that we are to walk in and then allows us the freedom of choice whether or not we will walk in these paths. And even though God knows in advance that some will obey and some will not, he always offers his grace freely to them and they are entirely responsible for their own actions when they disobey God. Futhermore, regardless of whether we obey or disobey God’s will, God’s will shall be accomplished-- which is what makes him omnipotent.
Gottle of Geer:

I’m not talking about that - that He is to be trusted, & and that it is a sin not to believe Him, goes without saying; my point was that there is no appeal from the judgement of God to any other. Which I would have thought also went without saying. Unless, of course, there is a God Whose Will can override the Will of God ? Which is absurd.

I think it goes deeper than this to be honest. I think when God asks us to trust him, he willingly sets himself up to be in a position that he trusts in us too-- even though he knows in advance that we will break his trust.

In a certain sense one could say that confronted with our human freedom, God decided to make Himself “impotent.” And one could say that God is paying for the great gift bestowed upon a being He created “in his image, after his likeness” as noted in Genesis 1:26.

Before this gift, God remains consistent, and places himself before the judgment of man, before an illegitimate tribunal which asks him provocative questions: “Then you are a king?” as noted in John 18:37

“Is it true that all which happens in the world, in the history of Israel, in the history of all nations, depends on you?”

Therefore, the condemnation of God by man is not based on the truth, but on arrogance, on an underhanded conspiracy.

Isn’t this the truth about the history of humanity, the truth about our century?

In our time the same condemnation has been repeated in many courts of oppressive totalitarian regimes.

And isn’t it also being repeated in the parliaments of democracies where, for example, laws are regularly passed condemning to death a person not yet born?

God is always on the side of the suffering. His omnipotence is manifested precisely in the fact that he freely accepted suffering. He could have chosen not to do so. He could have chosen to demonstrate his omnipotence even at the moment of the crucifixion.

In fact, it was proposed to him: “Let the Messiah, the King of Israel, come down now from the cross that we may see and believe” in Mark 15:32.

But he did not accept that challenge. The fact that he stayed on the cross until the end, the fact that on the cross he could say, as do all who suffer: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” in Mark 15:34 has remained in human history the strongest argument.

If the agony on the cross had not happened, the truth that God is Love would have been unfounded.
Gottle of Geer:

Trust is not the issue - the absolute & unbounded authority of God, from which there is no appeal whatever, is the issue. God is an Absolute Ruler - not some godlet one can appeal from.

No. Trust is the issue. It’s the core issue in fact. But this trust isn’t about whether we can trust God or not-- of course we can trust God and the crucifixion proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt. The issue is whether God can trust us or not. And it’s precisely when we break God’s trust in us that we end up getting into trouble.
Gottle of Geer:

When God has spoken - that is the end of the matter: all that remains, is for His creatures to obey Him.

Would you obey God if you didn’t trust him?

 

[spauline]

CCC 2115 states: “God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints”

In order to reveal the future God would have to be omniscient, right?

I found paragraph 2115 by looking in the index of the CCC.
Under God is the sub heading God the Almighty. Under the sub-heading “God the Almighty” is the sub heading "God can reveal the future.”

God IS OMNIPRESENCE: Always there and is everywhere
God IS OMISCIENT: know everything past, present, and future.
God IS OMNIPOTENCE: All-powerful

Spauline, I’m sure you realize that the word “OMNIPRESENCE” is not listed in the CCC index either. Therefore, the CCC must on teach that either right? No, the CCC does teach about God’s OMNIPRESENCE. I can reference CCC paragraphs if needed. Just let me know.

What is more important the use of the word “Omniscient” or describing the attributes, the meaning of the word? The word “Omniscient” means All-knowing. I have shown that the CCC clearly talks about God knowing the future. Other here have shown that the CCC clearly talks about God being All-knowing.

Knowing the future and being All knowing are attributes to being “omniscient”. So the CCC does teach that God is “omniscient”.

I know that it’s not the CCC but Catholic Encyclopedia does talk about God Nature. Catholic Encyclopedia does talk about God’s omnipresence, omniscient, and omnipotence. The Nature and Attributes of God

OK, take it easy! I’m sorry. I was just getting worried that my ultra-schismatic rad-trad friend might have been right that there are heresies in the CCC. I had never wanted to believe it, and I think you guys have helped me to see that I am getting worried over nothing. I think I should have just taken the time to go the index. Sometimes I forget to remove my head from an unpleasant place.