Where in The Bible?

[Lasting_faith]

First, I am supposed to know this but I have really not have the time to read more then The Bible, CCC and Lumen Gentium and a few other books, so I may have missed the right place. However, I know that there is not one single mention in The Bible that say you can not have sex before you are married. (I have read The Bible over and over more times then I can remember so that I know for a fact, I read The Bible every day, morning and evening.)

In the CCC we read that sex before marriage is a sin, but as I understand everything is based on The Holy Bible and Catholic tradition, but it must be in The Bible. But where, and how is it possible that I have missed it totally? Could it be that I don’t know because I did not go thru any “training” before I converted, the Bishop did not think it was necessary. So, my question is where is it said that you must be married before you can have sex. And yes, I know it is a sin, I just want to know, and I am not have any plans to marry, I have been married and I am now divorced and can therefor not marry again because I will not give away my right to the most Holy Sacrament there is, The Sacrament of Communion.

 

[Newbie2]

First, I am supposed to know this but I have really not have the time to read more then The Bible, CCC and Lumen Gentium and a few other books, so I may have missed the right place. However, I know that there is not one single mention in The Bible that say you can not have sex before you are married. (I have read The Bible over and over more times then I can remember so that I know for a fact, I read The Bible every day, morning and evening.)

In the CCC we read that sex before marriage is a sin, but as I understand everything is based on The Holy Bible and Catholic tradition, but it must be in The Bible. But where, and how is it possible that I have missed it totally? Could it be that I don’t know because I did not go thru any “training” before I converted, the Bishop did not think it was necessary. So, my question is where is it said that you must be married before you can have sex. And yes, I know it is a sin, I just want to know, and I am not have any plans to marry, I have been married and I am now divorced and can therefor not marry again because I will not give away my right to the most Holy Sacrament there is, The Sacrament of Communion.

It is more implicit than explicit in a number of places:

1. Where did Jesus perform his first miracle? At a wedding.
2. Jesus is very clear about adultery…sexual activity outside of marriage…in a number of places.
3. Genesis makes it very clear the relationship between a man and a woman.

Those are right off the top of my head, and I haven’t had any coffee yet. I’m sure there are better answers to come in this thread.

Thank you for sharing your love for the Lord in the Eucharist.

 

[Lasting_faith]

It is more implicit than explicit in a number of places:

1. Where did Jesus perform his first miracle? At a wedding.
2. Jesus is very clear about adultery…sexual activity outside of marriage…in a number of places.
3. Genesis makes it very clear the relationship between a man and a woman.

Those are right off the top of my head, and I haven’t had any coffee yet. I’m sure there are better answers to come in this thread.

Thank you for sharing your love for the Lord in the Eucharist.

But yes! Sometimes you look and look and see nothing because it is to obvious. It is like when you exam a patient and you don’t get it right because what you do is that you look for the things you want to find. And about coffee, I have the same problem, nothing is good before you have a gallon or two of it. Thank you and God bless.

 

[PoorKnight]

I always thought that ‘fornication’ was sex before / outside marriage and ‘adultery’ was sex with someone who is not your spouse. If that’s the case, and I could be wrong - just ask my wife - then all the verses that warn against fornication would be the ones you’re looking for.

God Bless

 

[1ke]

First, I am supposed to know this but I have really not have the time to read more then The Bible, CCC and Lumen Gentium and a few other books, so I may have missed the right place. However, I know that there is not one single mention in The Bible that say you can not have sex before you are married. (I have read The Bible over and over more times then I can remember so that I know for a fact, I read The Bible every day, morning and evening.)

Then perhaps you skipped the many warnings Paul gives that fornicators will not inherit the Kingdom. And you entirely skipped the sixth commandment of the decalogue. And the Woman at the well.

but it must be in The Bible.

Well, it is in the bible. But I am not sure where you get the idea it must be in the Bible. It certainly need not be in the Bible to be part of Divine Revelation, to be true, or to be a teaching of the Church. Scripture and Tradition form the deposit of faith.

But where, and how is it possible that I have missed it totally?

Not sure.

Could it be that I don’t know because I did not go thru any “training” before I converted, the Bishop did not think it was necessary.

Sorry, don’t know what you mean here.

 

[rfournier103]

1ke, I think he means that he didn’t have any RCIA classes, or anything like that.

 

[Abu]

Jesus taught a parable ending with “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”

On Peter asking for an explanation of the parable, Jesus warned: “But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.” (Mt 15: 8 -20). “From within people, from their hearts, come evil thoughts, unchastity(fornication), theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, licentiousness, envy, blasphemy, arrogance, folly. All these evils come from within and they defile.” (Mk 7:21-23)

From the Messiah Himself.

 

[Viki63]

I am not have any plans to marry, I have been married and I am now divorced and can therefor not marry again because I will not give away my right to the most Holy Sacrament there is, The Sacrament of Communion.

Perhaps you are not aware that in some cases, an attempted marriage may be annulled? Not everyone who is divorced is in the position of never marrying again. It depends on the circumstances. Just making sure that you know.
Perhaps it would benefit you to find a good RCIA class and attend it. People often go to it who just want to learn more about their faith. It would have to be a good one though, not just a “how does this make you feel?” type class.

 

[Lasting_faith]

Then perhaps you skipped the many warnings Paul gives that fornicators will not inherit the Kingdom. And you entirely skipped the sixth commandment of the decalogue. And the Woman at the well.

Well, it is in the bible. But I am not sure where you get the idea it must be in the Bible. It certainly need not be in the Bible to be part of Divine Revelation, to be true, or to be a teaching of the Church. Scripture and Tradition form the deposit of faith.

Not sure.

Sorry, don’t know what you mean here.

OK “1ke”, from the start you have been a bit grumpy toward me. Any reason to it? Or are you challenge my faith?

I did not go to a RCI-class because our Bishop did not see a need to it due to the fact that even if I was a Lutheran all the way until I converted I did live a like a Catholic for almost twenty years. All I could not do was to receive any Sacrament. And why did I not convert earlier? I was married to a divorced woman so I had to wait.

Thank you very much for the answers, and may God bless you all.

 

[jjdjrwildcat]

One more thing. Fornication is definitely adultery. Even if they are not someone’s spouse at the moment, they will be eventually, and thus you are still sinning against them in an adulterous way

 

[Darryl_B]

Fornication is a transactional relationship. It is an exchange of goods and services and includes prostitution, one night stands, and also sex before marriage. The reason sex before marriage is a purely transactional thing, is because there is no union, there are two seperate parties, not a single pre-existing union, so it is therefore transactional.

Adultery on the other hand is a splitting apart of a single pre-existing union.

 

[CEM5]

First, I am supposed to know this but I have really not have the time to read more then The Bible, CCC and Lumen Gentium and a few other books, so I may have missed the right place. However, I know that there is not one single mention in The Bible that say you can not have sex before you are married. (I have read The Bible over and over more times then I can remember so that I know for a fact, I read The Bible every day, morning and evening.)

In the CCC we read that sex before marriage is a sin, but as I understand everything is based on The Holy Bible and Catholic tradition, but it must be in The Bible. But where, and how is it possible that I have missed it totally? Could it be that I don’t know because I did not go thru any “training” before I converted, the Bishop did not think it was necessary. So, my question is where is it said that you must be married before you can have sex. And yes, I know it is a sin, I just want to know, and I am not have any plans to marry, I have been married and I am now divorced and can therefor not marry again because I will not give away my right to the most Holy Sacrament there is, The Sacrament of Communion.

1 Cor 6
9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.

Meaning of “fornication”
**
for·ni·ca·tion**
[fawr-ni-key-shuhn]
noun
1.
voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.

So there you have it: Biblical evidence that “fornicators” (those who commit fornication) will not inherit the kingdom of God (which is eternal salvation in heaven).

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

Fornication is a transactional relationship. It is an exchange of goods and services and includes prostitution, one night stands, and also sex before marriage. The reason sex before marriage is a purely transactional thing, is because there is no union, there are two seperate parties, not a single pre-existing union, so it is therefore transactional.

Adultery on the other hand is a splitting apart of a single pre-existing union.

Paul assures us that any act of copulation makes two people “one flesh”. Therefore a transcendental union between the couple who copulated is established. Fornication and adultery abuse this metaphysical fact and create tensions and disruptions between people who have had multiple partners, which can, and often does, end with at least deep betrayals and at worst violence.

 

[Darryl_B]

Paul assures us that any act of copulation makes two people “one flesh”. Therefore a transcendental union between the couple who copulated is established. Fornication and adultery abuse this metaphysical fact and create tensions and disruptions between people who have had multiple partners, which can, and often does, end with at least deep betrayals and at worst violence.

I agree with that entirely. The Greek word translated fornication means “to sell”, its an unemotional transaction, it might not seem it at the time, it might seem that there is passion, but the life-style certainly does take a toll on future relationship bindings emotionally, they have in effect sold themselves short.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

I agree with that entirely. The Greek word translated fornication means “to sell”, its an unemotional transaction, it might not seem it at the time, it might seem that there is passion, but the life-style certainly does take a toll on future relationship bindings emotionally, they have in effect sold themselves short.

I didn’t mean to sound argumentative. I was just trying to clarify.

God bless!

 

[Darryl_B]

I didn’t mean to sound argumentative. I was just trying to clarify.

God bless!

I didn’t find you to be argumentative, I apologize if I gave that impression. I entirely agree with you, and your points are entirely valid.

 

[Darryl_B]

I didn’t mean to sound argumentative. I was just trying to clarify.

God bless!

I would also greatly appreciate if you could build on your argument further. If people are affected detrimentally in terms of relationships, then that will, I expect, prove that it is not the way God planned us to be.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

I would also greatly appreciate if you could build on your argument further. If people are affected detrimentally in terms of relationships, then that will, I expect, prove that it is not the way God planned us to be.

Well look at the dating and “hook up” culture that has developed out of the sexual disaster of the 60’s&70’s.

Dating might have been a good thing in itself, just an innocent way for two people to build a relationship. But because of the sex culture dating has become something other. I myself remember the adage, “getting a wife is like buying a new car, you gotta ‘test drive’ her first.”

The idea is utterly absurd once you realize the truth, but that’s what I was raised with. Now when I see people dating who are emotionally and sexually involved, or just as bad cohabiting, it seems that all dating really is is for is practice for divorce.

Because once you have that one relationship where the couple played at marriage with no real commitment, and that relationship ends, then every subsequent relationship is automatically in jeapordy. Because with each subsequent relationship the person is less committed, less emotionally open, less trustful, and more prone to split at even the slightest hint that the other might hurt or betray them.

Or even worse are those who have been taught to believe that the emotional combination of excitement, fear, affection, attraction, and lust that the culture calls “being in love” is the only valid prerequisite for any “real” or valid relationship or marriage. And they believe, especially if you pay attention to J-LO, that this emotional combination has to be a permanent condition, and that if it’s not and the person gets “bored” then the relationship or marriage is no longer valid.

And that the idea of marrying someone for the purpose of finding a faithful and devoted partner, for the sake of developing chastity and charity for interpersonal growth, and the rearing of children, is something low and cynical.

The common culture’s view of love and marriage is completely upside down. It’s adolescent and just not very well thought out. It’s all subjective and emotionally driven.

I’ve tried to educate my own daughters on this fact. They, of course, laughed at me at first. But once I began explaining things, they changed rather quickly.

 

[Darryl_B]

Well look at the dating and “hook up” culture that has developed out of the sexual disaster of the 60’s&70’s.

Dating might have been a good thing in itself, just an innocent way for two people to build a relationship. But because of the sex culture dating has become something other. I myself remember the adage, “getting a wife is like buying a new car, you gotta ‘test drive’ her first.”

The idea is utterly absurd once you realize the truth, but that’s what I was raised with. Now when I see people dating who are emotionally and sexually involved, or just as bad cohabiting, it seems that all dating really is is for is practice for divorce.

Because once you have that one relationship where the couple played at marriage with no real commitment, and that relationship ends, then every subsequent relationship is automatically in jeapordy. Because with each subsequent relationship the person is less committed, less emotionally open, less trustful, and more prone to split at even the slightest hint that the other might hurt or betray them.

Or even worse are those who have been taught to believe that the emotional combination of excitement, fear, affection, attraction, and lust that the culture calls “being in love” is the only valid prerequisite for any “real” or valid relationship or marriage. And they believe, especially if you pay attention to J-LO, that this emotional combination has to be a permanent condition, and that if it’s not and the person gets “bored” then the relationship or marriage is no longer valid.

And that the idea of marrying someone for the purpose of finding a faithful and devoted partner, for the sake of developing chastity and charity for interpersonal growth, and the rearing of children, is something low and cynical.

The common culture’s view of love and marriage is completely upside down. It’s adolescent and just not very well thought out. It’s all subjective and emotionally driven.

I’ve tried to educate my own daughters on this fact. They, of course, laughed at me at first. But once I began explaining things, they changed rather quickly.

Thanks GreyPilgrim. You are so right. You have a lot to offer in wisdom.

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

If you’re just looking for a prooftext, turn to 1 Corinthians.

I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. (1 Corinthians 7:8-9)