Where in the constitution is heathcare?

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Judge Napolitano This is a MUST VIEW!!!

This gives a short but good review of some current constitutional issues.
The judge does get a little excited at the end.

“This is truly frightening and REPEAT; IT IS NOT POLITICAL Please listen
to every minute of this video and then pass it on. It must be viewed
by as many freedom loving Americans, as possible. Thank you.
Andrew P. Napolitano is a 59 year old former New Jersey Superior
Court Judge. He is a graduate of Princeton University , and Notre Dame Law
School . At Princeton he was a founding member of the Concerned Alumni of
Princeton along with Justice Samuel Alito. Judge Napolitano is the
youngest life-tenured Superior Court judge in
the history of the State of New Jersey .”

Click below and listen to Judge Napolitano’s important message to all
Americans.

youtube.com/watch_popup?v=7n2m-X7OIuY
 
Article I, Section 8, the taxing and spending clause, as well as the interstate commerce clause. Healthcare “reform” may be a bad idea, but there is no question that Congress has the power to do it. One judge on a youtube video makes no difference; in fact, its up to the US Supreme Court to determine what the constitution says and doesn’t say, so even convincing everyone of this idea would make no difference at all.

I’m generally with you on opposing health care, but this is a losing argument. Find another.
 
Article I, Section 8, the taxing and spending clause, as well as the interstate commerce clause. Healthcare “reform” may be a bad idea, but there is no question that Congress has the power to do it. One judge on a youtube video makes no difference; in fact, its up to the US Supreme Court to determine what the constitution says and doesn’t say, so even convincing everyone of this idea would make no difference at all.

I’m generally with you on opposing health care, but this is a losing argument. Find another.
The mouth of Congress, the FBI, IRS, etc. is NOT the ultimate law. Jurors have the Constitutional right to nullify bad laws.

Jurors have the right to judge both the facts and the law. The Supreme Court conducted a jury trial in the Case of the State of Georgia vs. Brailsford in 1794. Justice John Jay instructed the jury: “On questions of fact, it is the province of the jury; on questions of law, it is the province of the court to decide. But it must be observed that by the same law, which recognizes the reasonable distribution of jurisdiction, you have nevertheless a right to take upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy (Conrad, 1999).”

Jurors have the power to nullify bad laws. “Amendment VII of the Constitution guarantees that jury verdicts which nullify laws cannot be reviewed and the Supreme Court has affirmed this (Silveira, 2001).” A jury acquittal is final. Jurors are free to vote their conscience because they cannot be prosecuted for their verdict.

Jury nullification would be particularly useful in administrative law where a government agency charges an individual with a crime. The IRS is an example of a government agency that is both judge and jury. If the IRS charges a citizen with tax fraud, I think that a citizen should have the right to request a trail by jury. Trial by jury would have a sobering effect on IRS tactics, as reported in recent years.
 
Judge Napolitano This is a MUST VIEW!!!

This gives a short but good review of some current constitutional issues.
The judge does get a little excited at the end.

“This is truly frightening and REPEAT; IT IS NOT POLITICAL Please listen
to every minute of this video and then pass it on. It must be viewed
by as many freedom loving Americans, as possible. Thank you.
Andrew P. Napolitano is a 59 year old former New Jersey Superior
Court Judge. He is a graduate of Princeton University , and Notre Dame Law
School . At Princeton he was a founding member of the Concerned Alumni of
Princeton along with Justice Samuel Alito. Judge Napolitano is the
youngest life-tenured Superior Court judge in
the history of the State of New Jersey .”

Click below and listen to Judge Napolitano’s important message to all
Americans.

youtube.com/watch_popup?v=7n2m-X7OIuY
Powerful and excellent!!! Well done!!
 
Article I, Section 8, the taxing and spending clause, as well as the interstate commerce clause. Healthcare “reform” may be a bad idea, but there is no question that Congress has the power to do it. One judge on a youtube video makes no difference; in fact, its up to the US Supreme Court to determine what the constitution says and doesn’t say, so even convincing everyone of this idea would make no difference at all.

I’m generally with you on opposing health care, but this is a losing argument. Find another.
you could also argue the it could also be covered under the 6 reasons given for creating the Constitution as outlined in the Preamble
 
Article I, Section 8, the taxing and spending clause, as well as the interstate commerce clause. Healthcare “reform” may be a bad idea, but there is no question that Congress has the power to do it. One judge on a youtube video makes no difference; in fact, its up to the US Supreme Court to determine what the constitution says and doesn’t say, so even convincing everyone of this idea would make no difference at all.

I’m generally with you on opposing health care, but this is a losing argument. Find another.
Jury Nullification

Jury nullification is when a jury acquits a person of a crime, even though it is clear he committed the crime. Juries have the right to evaluate both the facts and the law in a court case. Jury nullification does not change the law. Jurors just refuse to apply the law in a particular case. Unfortunately, the courts do not agree with my thesis. Today the courts say that juries merely have the right to judge the facts. Only the judge has the right to interpret the law (Hoffman, Smith and Willis). I contend that this trend is contrary to the intent of the Founding Fathers.

Today we live in an age of judicial activism, or as some have called it, judicial tyranny. Thomas Jefferson wrote, “The germ of dissolution of our federal government is in the constitution of the federal judiciary…working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief, over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall be usurped” (Bergh 331-332). Judicial activism is contrary to the intent of the Founding Fathers. Therefore, I support the concept of jury nullification. This view holds that the **trial jury has more power than Congress, the President, or even the Supreme Court. ** “This is because **it (the trial jury) has the final veto power over all acts of the legislature that may come to be called laws” **(Jurors’ Handbook). Jurors’ rights not only include an assessment of the facts, but an evaluation of the law itself.

Jurors have the right to judge both the facts and the law. The Supreme Court conducted a jury trial in the Case of the State of Georgia vs. Brailsford in 1794. Justice John Jay instructed the jury: “On questions of fact, it is the province of the jury; on questions of law, it is the province of the court to decide. But it must be observed that by the same law, which recognizes the reasonable distribution of jurisdiction, you have nevertheless a right to take upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy.”

There is a struggle between those who believe in juror activism and those who believe in judicial activism. The government does not like its laws vetoed by a jury. The courts seek to limit the power of juries in various ways. The jury selection process can be engineered to disqualify people who understand what jury nullification is all about. A couple of especially hard questions for those who understand and appreciate the political role of the jury are, “Will you follow the law as given, even if you disagree with it?” and/or “Have you read any material on the topic of jury nullification?”

Many believe that cultivating jury nullification is a mistake. “Unlike legislators or electors, jurors have no opportunity to investigate or research the merits of legislation” (King). “Some legal scholars, judges and business lawyers say that reining in juries is a necessity in an overloaded legal system. Others argue that juries must be controlled to limit excesses, and curb prejudices like hostility to big corporations” (Galberson).

The ultimate purpose of jury nullification is to reign in the abusive power of the judiciary. Therefore, I do not want our judicial system run exclusively by lawyers and judges, and I do not want to limit the role of juries. I believe that the eroding role of juries is contrary to the intent of the Founding Fathers. Juries have the right to evaluate both the facts and the law in a court case.
 
The general welfare comment does not give the government free reign to do whatever our bureaucrats and elected officials want to do.

Amendment 10 specifically states that all of the powers not specifically mentioned are for the states and for the people. Period.

And there is a specific list of what the Congress is allowed to do. So that over-rides the notion that general welfare lets the government to any old thing it wants.

If general welfare lets the government do anything, then we could just delete the rest of the Constitution after the words “general welfare”.

But apart from that, there is NO NEED for the government to get involved in health care.

Apart from the government doing a generally terribly poor job of everything it touches, we don’t want the government postal clerks deciding who gets what.

AND it is the government that CAUSED the health care problems to begin with.

THEY CAUSED IT AND TO FIX IT THEY WANT 3000 MORE PAGES OF LAW. That is so bogus.

Here, read this:

Actually, if left to free and open interstate competition, the insurance companies serve us just fine.

But what has happened is that we, the citizens, are not permitted to purchase things like HSA [Health Savings Accounts] and catastrophic insurance. The government(s) [Federal and state] outright prohibit them from being sold, except in very limited situations.

The Congress makes these laws and also makes tax policy.

So our government is causing the unnecessarily high costs. And THEN THE GOVERNMENT TURNS AROUND AND BLAMES THE INSURANCE COMPANIES for problems that the government created.

We need to vote out the Democrats in November. It was people like Ted Kennedy who wrote in the prohibitions for free and open sale of HSA’s. Well, he has passed on and “his seat” is now in Republican hands [Hopefully, the Republican will do a better job.]

Free and open interstate competition without mandates. That is #1 and that is what the Democrats do not want.

Automatic investigation and audit and prosecution of Medicaid fraud. The Democrats do not want that because it is being done on an organized basis. That is #2. The cost is in the tens of billions. There are legitimate cases of need and a lot of them. But the fraudsters are organized with doctors and lawyers sharing office space. They are known but the politicians won’t prosecute or investigate because of campaign contributions.

Tort reform, particularly caps on lawsuits. That is #3 and that is what the Democrats do not want. Guys like Edwards make and made tens of millions and cause good drugs to be pulled off the market.

Tax policy that allows full tax deductions for all medical expenses. That is #4. That is what the Democrats do not want. They put in limits. And when I say “all”, I mean all. That includes my being able to pay my mother’s expenses and being able to deduct them.

Tax policy that allows refundable tax credits for all medical expenses for people with low incomes and high medical expenses. The paperwork would be done by the hospital, all would be fully vetted. There are some, not a lot of, people who have posted here, like Pathia, who were born with medical conditions that require extensive treatment. That is #5.

There are many other reforms that could be undertaken at no cost to the taxpayer and with reduced costs to everyone with higher quality service and better innovation. Such as letting hospitals advertise to their local residents that the people can buy insurance from the hospital. AND that could include regular visits, and all sorts of levels of coverage to include pap smears, mammograms, prostate exams, blood and fluid lab work [which is a really cheap way to get a physical] and that can be done as part of a blood donor program.

I have often asked blood banks why they don’t provide an incentive to donate in the form of a “drive-by” physical. They have all the lab facilities and can do every kind of blood test. [For a test requiring fasting, you would need a separate visit, or fast first and then they would provide a snack in their snack bar before you donate blood.]

The blood banks already do a blood pressure test. They have your height and weight and medical history and what meds you are taking. That tells a lot. And they could very easily do a body mass evaluation. Very simple to do.
 
The general welfare comment does not give the government free reign to do whatever our bureaucrats and elected officials want to do.
Really? where in the document is “general welfare” defined and where are limits on who and how much “promoting” can be done?
Amendment 10 specifically states that all of the powers not specifically mentioned are for the states and for the people. Period.
there are many things in our government that are handled on both Federal and state levels (even on local levels) so that doesn’t seem so clear cut as you state
And there is a specific list of what the Congress is allowed to do. So that over-rides the notion that general welfare lets the government to any old thing it wants.
in practice the Congress has been able to do anything the political will of the people will allow
and if I read my Article ! section 8 correctly congress shall has the power
“To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.”

“all other powers”
that is a potentially very wide area of authority (and has been historically)

and Article VI is very clear that the federal government is the supreme law of the land
If general welfare lets the government do anything, then we could just delete the rest of the Constitution after the words “general welfare”.
a constitution that doesn’t provide some government structure for promoting the general welfare et al wouldn’t be much of a Constitution
But apart from that, there is NO NEED for the government to get involved in health care.
all of our capitalist competitors have come to a different conclusion
and they seem to be getting better results for less money
Apart from the government doing a generally terribly poor job of everything it touches, we don’t want the government postal clerks deciding who gets what…
yeah that crazy government look how it messed up the Normandy invasion and the interstate system 😉

a blanket argument that government can do nothing right is useless
clearly there are many things that governments can and do quite well
 
online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203917304574412793406386548.html

Excerpt; there are also 167 comments

Rep. Clyburn, like many of his colleagues, seems to have conveniently forgotten that the federal government has only specific enumerated powers. He also seems to have overlooked the Ninth and 10th Amendments, which limit Congress’s powers only to those granted in the Constitution.

One of those powers—the power “to regulate” interstate commerce—is the favorite hook on which Congress hangs its hat in order to justify the regulation of anything it wants to control.

Unfortunately, a notoriously tendentious New Deal-era Supreme Court decision has given Congress a green light to use the Commerce Clause to regulate noncommercial, and even purely local, private behavior. In Wickard v. Filburn (1942), the Supreme Court held that a farmer who grew wheat just for the consumption of his own family violated federal agricultural guidelines enacted pursuant to the Commerce Clause. Though the wheat did not move across state lines—indeed, it never left his farm—the Court held that if other similarly situated farmers were permitted to do the same it, might have an aggregate effect on interstate commerce.

James Madison, who argued that to regulate meant to keep regular, would have shuddered at such circular reasoning. Madison’s understanding was the commonly held one in 1789, since the principle reason for the Constitutional Convention was to establish a central government that would prevent ruinous state-imposed tariffs that favored in-state businesses. It would do so by assuring that commerce between the states was kept “regular.”

The Supreme Court finally came to its senses when it invalidated a congressional ban on illegal guns within 1,000 feet of public schools. In United States v. Lopez (1995), the Court ruled that the Commerce Clause may only be used by Congress to regulate human activity that is truly commercial at its core and that has not traditionally been regulated by the states. The movement of illegal guns from one state to another, the Court ruled, was criminal and not commercial at its core, and school safety has historically been a state function.

Applying these principles to President Barack Obama’s health-care proposal, it’s clear that his plan is unconstitutional at its core. The practice of medicine consists of the delivery of intimate services to the human body. In almost all instances, the delivery of medical services occurs in one place and does not move across interstate lines. One goes to a physician not to engage in commercial activity, as the Framers of the Constitution understood, but to improve one’s health. And the practice of medicine, much like public school safety, has been regulated by states for the past century.

The same Congress that wants to tell family farmers what to grow in their backyards has declined “to keep regular” the commercial sale of insurance policies. It has permitted all 50 states to erect the type of barriers that the Commerce Clause was written precisely to tear down. Insurers are barred from selling policies to people in another state.

That’s right: Congress refuses to keep commerce regular when the commercial activity is the sale of insurance, but claims it can regulate the removal of a person’s appendix because that constitutes interstate commerce.

What we have here is raw abuse of power by the federal government for political purposes. The president and his colleagues want to reward their supporters with “free” health care that the rest of us will end up paying for. Their only restraint on their exercise of Commerce Clause power is whatever they can get away with. They aren’t upholding the Constitution—they are evading it.
 
“Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna . After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything. When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full. If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries
(Kitty Werthmann).”
 
“Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna . After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything. When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full. If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries
(Kitty Werthmann).”
Kitty Werthmann came to the US 60 years ago so
(a) she probably isn’t current on the situation there and
(b) all of her adult memories would be form the war or the immediate aftermath. which would hardly be representative


Study shows Austria has the best health care system in Europe in 2007
 
The point is that the rules of economics don’t change. When something valuable is free, demand increases tremendously.

The experience of Austria demonstrates that fact.
 
I agree, we live in a capitalist society. Our entire system of conduct was founded upon capitalism. And I really think that, every company should be allowed to be its own governing structure. Even in the insurance world. Because insurance companies do a lot of good for a lot of Americans. Health Insurance is a protection against losing what you’ve worked your whole life to gain. I would lose my house if I had to pay for a child birth, a heart surgery, or any other big medical procedure. And who wants to gamble with your health?!
 
Back to the OP:

The Constitution has something called “Enumerated Powers”. Article 1, Section 8.

It goes on and on in great detail of the duties of Congress.

Healthcare is nowhere in there detailed or implied.

Furthermore, Amendment X states: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”

In other words, the authority and responsibility for health care belongs to the states or to the individuals, who may work together as they choose in commerce, but there is no role for the Federal government in health care.
 
Take a look at some of what is going to be in the health care bill:

lucianne.com/article/?pageid=obamacare_rules

NONE of this stuff is in the Constitution and much of it totally violates our individual liberties, no matter what your personal politics happens to be, you will be adversely affected.
 
Article I, Section 8, the taxing and spending clause, as well as the interstate commerce clause. Healthcare “reform” may be a bad idea, but there is no question that Congress has the power to do it. One judge on a youtube video makes no difference; in fact, its up to the US Supreme Court to determine what the constitution says and doesn’t say, so even convincing everyone of this idea would make no difference at all.

I’m generally with you on opposing health care, but this is a losing argument. Find another.
The authority is granted to the federal government through the constitution and can only be ammended by the means which are outlined in the constitution. The supreme court does not have the authority to override the constitution.

Section 8 can only be applied to the heath car debate in two ways. One, impact on pattents for medical products and technology and the establishment of rules of interstate commerce which allow insurance to be sold over state lines.

Nearly all of the other powers being taken by congress are a violation of the authority which we have given them.
 
The point is that the rules of economics don’t change. When something valuable is free, demand increases tremendously.

The experience of Austria demonstrates that fact.
free? who is talking about free? :confused:
 
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