Where is THAT in the Qu'ran?

[hosemonkey]

There are indeed conflicting ahadith regarding the age of A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) when she married the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)… but there are absolutely NO

conflicting ahadith, either mutawatir or otherwise, regarding the miracle of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) sprouting water from his fingers, none whatsoever.

And so again I wish to point out that people who readily believe the hadith which reports A’ishah being six at the time of her marriage, would have really no reason at all to doubt the veracity of the mutawatir hadith regarding the miracle of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) sprouting water from his fingers.

Who cares if water spouted from his fingers,ears or his behind, that is not the issue. The fact is is that he had sexual intercourse with a little nine year old girl. that makes him a pervert and a child molester, when he purports to be a prophet. that is the issue and there is no way that moslems can sugar-coat it.

 

[staffsgt7]

OK, Abraham was not married to Hagar. He just had sex with her and she conceived his child. So what is worse really?

Can you provide us with the direction in the Bible that being a pediphile is to be carried on by Jews and/or Christians without question? As science and medicine has found out that doing such things to children is bad, the Jews and Christians stopped such practices. The Muslims carry it on because of their belief that Mohammed was the perfect man and it says that they are to emulate him. And they do it without question, no matter what the atrocity.

The Muslims on this thread call it ‘harping’ on the age of Aisha and have even questioned Aisha’s word. How convenient, especially when I have provided (post #17) proof they believe her because they are still practicing pediphilia. If it isn’t convenient for them to have this discussion then they try to sow doubt in the hadith.

 

[hamba2han]

Miracles happen ONLY with the help of God Almighty… and if someone says that he does not care about miracles, then he or she is not someone who is particularly interested in the things that pleases God.

BTW, the miracle of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) splitting the moon as mentioned in the Qur’an is also recorded as a mutawatir hadith.

And so, if you choose to believe the relatively weaker hadith regarding A’ishah’s (may Allah be pleased with her) age at the time of her marriage, then there is also no reason at all why you should not believe the veracity of the mutawatir hadith concerning the splitting of the moon.

 

[schaick]

This webpage has alot of great hadith about the issue:

wikiislam.com/wiki/Aisha’s_Age_of_Consummation

GOD’s intentions for a man, a woman and marriage:

Genesis 2

18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

But for Adam no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, ’
for she was taken out of man.”

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

GOD made one woman [one helper] to be with one man- not multiple helpers and women. GOD allows polygamy for some in the Holy Bible but man had already sinned- multiple wives came after Adam and Eve were run out of the Garden of Paradise.

Multiple wives were not the ideal-

Deuteronomy 17
17Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away.

1 Timothy 3
2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

1 Timothy 3
12A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

Titus 1
6An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

 

[staffsgt7]

Miracles happen ONLY with the help of God Almighty… and if someone says that he does not care about miracles, then he or she is not someone who is particularly interested in the things that pleases God.

BTW, the miracle of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) splitting the moon as mentioned in the Qur’an is also recorded as a mutawatir hadith.

And so, if you choose to believe the relatively weaker hadith regarding A’ishah’s (may Allah be pleased with her) age at the time of her marriage, then there is also no reason at all why you should not believe the veracity of the mutawatir hadith concerning the splitting of the moon.

I believe Aisha more than I believe your prophet. Sorry, but the guy made things up so he could satisfy his own sexual perversions. He had no miracles to prove that he was a prophet so he makes up some story of the moon splitting. There is no other peoples on the earth that backed up his tale. None. Not even the other people in the Middle East saw it.

If the moon split there would have been the Chinese writing about it, the Europeans, and probably other cultures would have drawn or carved things such as the Incas and the others in S. America do on stones.

It is like you guys are on a different planet with this guy Mohammed. You even are admitting to us the ridiculousness of the moon splitting hadith but are trying to use that as proof a little girl lied. Sorry, but the liar was Mohammed. He even admitted to it, and said you guys could lie if it advanced Islam. And he made your god into a liar which makes me wonder how you can trust any of it.

He made up a tale just to get his adopted son’s wife because he couldn’t control himself. The whole thing based on a liar is absurd.

 

[elwill]

Ok, thanks, but why did he marry her? What was the situation? Why is he attracted to six-year-olds?

Aisha’s parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet,

The age of sexual consent is still quite low in many places. In Japan, people can legally have sex at age 13, and in Spain they can legally have sex at age 12. (This data comes from the Age of Consent chart, which you can see at:

ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)

why then you can’t imagine that it was okey 1400 years ago in the desert of middle east ?

do you know that
**In the USA last century, the age of consent was 10 years old. **California was the first state to change the age of consent to 14, which it did in 1889. After California, other US states joined in and raised the age of consent too. (Source:
ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.htm

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

There are indeed conflicting ahadith regarding the age of A’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) when she married the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)… but there are absolutely NO conflicting ahadith, either mutawatir or otherwise, regarding the miracle of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) sprouting water from his fingers, none whatsoever.

This is such a blatant attempt to detract from the topic that it is simply hilarious.

Also, dude, seriously, that one post you made talking about the hadith? You posted it in another thread before! People addressed it already. Do you seriously think people don’t have retentive memories? That they aren’t going to recognize a big long post with goofy colors used for specific text?

If you don’t have anything to contribute to a topic…just don’t contribute.

Aisha’s parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet

Actually…

Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah’s Apostle said (to me), "You were shown to me in a dream. An angel brought you to me, wrapped in a piece of silken cloth, and said to me, ‘This is your wife.’ I removed the piece of cloth from your face, and there you were. I said to myself. ‘If it is from Allah, then it will surely be.’ " [Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 57]

The age of sexual consent is still quite low in many places. In Japan, people can legally have sex at age 13, and in Spain they can legally have sex at age 12. (This data comes from the Age of Consent chart, which you can see at:

ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)

why then you can’t imagine that it was okey 1400 years ago in the desert of middle east ?

do you know that
**In the USA last century, the age of consent was 10 years old. **California was the first state to change the age of consent to 14, which it did in 1889. After California, other US states joined in and raised the age of consent too. (Source:
ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.htm

This is another classic example of non-sequitor that is often used when the topic of Aisha comes up. Namely, “Well, in some countries they marry at a young age, so that makes this OK!”

Non-sequitor nature aside, the argument also forgets that most of those marriages were either consensual or arranged (and may not even involve sexual relations if the latter), and that it is therefore far different than marrying someone because a dream said you should.

In any case, a man in his 50’s (perhaps older) marrying a 6-year old and then having sex with her when she’s 9…and all because of a dream…is simply horrifying, and I do not understand why some people willingly play apologist to it.

 

[dzheremi]

The difference as usual, elwill, is that no other example that you can point to can be given the MORAL WEIGHT given to the examples set by Muhammad for every Muslim in the world. So these examples of secular laws in various countries around the world do not have the same dimension of revulsion in them for non-Muslims, as they are not based around the behavior of ONE MAN whose every action is to be taken as sacrosanct at the risk of eternal punishment (and temporal punishment, too, as we can see by the many infamous “blasphemy” cases in Muslim-majority lands like Pakistan, Sudan, and Lebanon).

No dice, my friend.

Edit: YES, and even worse in this particular case, revolting behavior BASED ON A DREAM, as Byzantine Wolf points out!

(Edit two: Sorry for the caps, everybody. For some reason the font options have not been working for me here for the past few days. Am I the only one who is experiencing this?)

 

[MrZetterlund]

He married her when she was 6, but had sex with her only when she was 9. She was probably pretty mature for her age, so its not so bad…right?

There’s not much difference from having sex with a nine-year-old than having sex with a six-year-old.

 

[planten]

Dear God,

This should explain everything,

youtube.com/watch?v=IVA2m8n83Ms&feature=related

start at 3:00

please dont reply until you have seen the video.

Thanks to ahlulbayt. I have watched the video. The speaker has proved that:
1 the Hadith about Aisha marrying at the young age was invented by a false narrator of Ahadith.
2. That Aisha was born before Muhammad started getting revelation (Wahi). So at the time of migration, she must have been 14 years old. Then marrying Muhammad two years after Hijrah (Migration) she was 16 years old. At marriage she was 16 years old.
3. Also we know that when the prophet Migrated to Madinah, he came to Abubakr house and informed Abubakr about permission from Allah to leave the city of Makkah. Abubakr requested the prophet Muhammad to him be in company. The prophet allowed him to keep company.

At that time Aisha prepared the food pack for the two travellors. So she was grown up enough to have prepared the food items and packed them.

I am thankful to that Zakir (Shia Aalim, zulfiqar?) for bringing the good news from hadith and Quran that Aisha was about 15 years old when married. And that person who narrated the Hadith about her marriage at very young age was a fraud, concoctor of Ahadith. He was false narrator of Ahadith.

 

[planten]

I had praised hamba for bringing good material (post #10) from the scripture (OT etc) and proving that more than one wife was quite well allowed in previous times. Prophets had more than one wife. Even Jacob had two wives (sisters) and he had two maid servants that he used to produce children.
I am sure that the friends of Jesus (Disciples) must have had more than one wife.

It is known that Mary was not the first wife of Joseph the carpentar. So what goes?

 

[staffsgt7]

Thanks to ahlulbayt. I have watched the video. The speaker has proved that:
1 the Hadith about Aisha marrying at the young age was invented by a false narrator of Ahadith.
2. That Aisha was born before Muhammad started getting revelation (Wahi). So at the time of migration, she must have been 14 years old. Then marrying Muhammad two years after Hijrah (Migration) she was 16 years old. At marriage she was 16 years old.
3. Also we know that when the prophet Migrated to Madinah, he came to Abubakr house and informed Abubakr about permission from Allah to leave the city of Makkah. Abubakr requested the prophet Muhammad to him be in company. The prophet allowed him to keep company.

At that time Aisha prepared the food pack for the two travellors. So she was grown up enough to have prepared the food items and packed them.

I am thankful to that Zakir (Shia Aalim, zulfiqar?) for bringing the good news from hadith and Quran that Aisha was about 15 years old when married. And that person who narrated the Hadith about her marriage at very young age was a fraud, concoctor of Ahadith. He was false narrator of Ahadith.

If an Ahmadi Muslim professes to be peaceful then why would the Ahamdis defend such an act against a child? Muslims follow Mohammed’s practice to this day (post #17) and use Mohammed marrying a child of 6 as their reason. I don’t find your posts credible that aisha was older because it is not convenient in discussing this topic with us.

We have an example of the Satanic verses being lies that are in the Koran and now we have Muslims telling us that their hadith are full of lies. From a lying Allah to a lying Prophet to their lying texts to sanctioned lying if it advances Islam.

Why are you not trying to convince the ones who are doing such things that they are wrong instead of us? If more Muslims did that it would be more credible instead of trying to convince us while the practice is still being carried on.

There are too many lies and I know you don’t see this. I feel sorry for you that you do not.

 

[jakasaki]

Aisha’s parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet,

The age of sexual consent is still quite low in many places. In Japan, people can legally have sex at age 13, and in Spain they can legally have sex at age 12. (This data comes from the Age of Consent chart, which you can see at:

ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm)

why then you can’t imagine that it was okey 1400 years ago in the desert of middle east ?

do you know that
**In the USA last century, the age of consent was 10 years old. **California was the first state to change the age of consent to 14, which it did in 1889. After California, other US states joined in and raised the age of consent too. (Source:
ageofconsent.com/comments/numberone.htm

Elwill - who cares about all of the bull dinky you just posted. ** NONE of these people are PROPHETS OF God!!! - **

 

[dzheremi]

elwill, not hamba. otherwise - yeah!

 

[jakasaki]

elwill, not hamba. otherwise - yeah!

Thanks mate!!! Correction made!!

 

[Jay53]

Miracles happen ONLY with the help of God Almighty… and if someone says that he does not care about miracles, then he or she is not someone who is particularly interested in the things that pleases God.

BTW, the miracle of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) splitting the moon as mentioned in the Qur’an is also recorded as a mutawatir hadith.

And so, if you choose to believe the relatively weaker hadith regarding A’ishah’s (may Allah be pleased with her) age at the time of her marriage, then there is also no reason at all why you should not believe the veracity of the mutawatir hadith concerning the splitting of the moon.

Despite the fact that this is off topic, I feel the need to point out that the Evil One is also capable of distorting reality and performing “evil magic”:

So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh. They did exactly as the Lord had commanded them. Aaron threw his staff down in front of Pharaoh and his officials. It turned into a snake.

11 Then Pharaoh sent for wise men and those who do evil magic. By doing their magic tricks, the Egyptian magicians did the same things Aaron had done. 12 Each one threw his staff down. Each staff turned into a snake. But Aaron’s staff swallowed theirs up.

13 In spite of that, Pharaoh’s heart became stubborn. He wouldn’t listen to them, just as the Lord had said.

Unless hamba is prepared to say that it was actually God that turned Pharaoh’s staff into a snake?

 

[hamba2han]

Despite the fact that this is off topic, I feel the need to point out that the Evil One is also capable of distorting reality and performing “evil magic”:

Unless hamba is prepared to say that it was actually God that turned Pharaoh’s staff into a snake?

Islam does indeed teach that magic exists and is a tool of the devil, as was in the case of the magicians of Pharaoh tricking people into believing that their sticks have turned into snakes.

However, devils are only capable of doing magic and NOT miracles which can ONLY be done with the help of God Almighty.

Let us examine the miracles that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) performed with the help of Allah and in particular the miracle of the splitting of the moon.

This miracle was done to demonstrate to the pagan Arabs in Makkah the supreme power of Allah and that the idols they were worshiping were not capable of doing anything.

If indeed the devil had the ability to split the moon (which of course he most certainly does not), then why would he do something that would cause the pagan Arabs to lose faith in their idols and to instead worship the One Lord of all the Universe?

It did not benefit Satan in any way to make the pagan Arabs of Makkah lose faith in their idols and hence cause them to come much closer to their Creator.

And bear in mind that this practice of questioning miracles as being mere acts of the devil is a double-edge sword which can also be used against miracles in Christianity.

Therefore, it is best for Christians to abandon this line of reasoning and they should instead turn the tables on Muslims who say that the Crucifixion was merely an illusion by themselves asserting that this event of the splitting of the moon, although seen by many trustworthy eye-witnesses and reliably reported by way of the ‘Science of Hadith’, was in fact merely an illusion.

 

[schaick]

Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64 Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Interesting - Bukhari and Aisha the mother of Islam are liars. Why would she lie about such a thing?

 

[Jay53]

I apologize to everyone for derailing the thread. Sometimes I have to remember not to let such obvious falsehoods drag me into a debate. Even now, I’m thinking of rebuttals to hamba’s false assertions. :banghead:

Anyhow, I am sorry. Back to your regularly scheduled debate!

 

[hamba2han]

I too am so sorry for not really explaining the relationship of the splitting of the moon event to the subject of the age of Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) when she married the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

You see, one of the arguments put forward which does indeed seem to contradict the account of her being only 6 or even 9 years old at the time of her marriage, is the issue of the time when Surah Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur’an was revealed.

Revealed as a whole, this surah came while the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was in Ibn Arqam’s home in the fourth (614) or eighth (618) or ninth (619) year of his mission, according to differing reports. Looking especially at necessity, some scholars focused on the date being 614; when this date is taken, Aisha either had not been born or had just been born. While when this date is taken it appears that she must have been born at least eight or nine years earlier, the situation does not change much when 618 or 619 are taken. In that situation she would have only been 4 or 5 years old, neither an age at which she would be in a position to understand this event and relate it years later. According to the second possibility, she was probably born when Muhammad’s prophet-hood had just begun.

Another matter worth mentioning here is that while describing that day, Aisha stated, “I was a girl playing games.” The word she used to describe herself, jariya, is used to describe the passage into puberty. Ibn Yara, an Arab poet, describes this passage as follows: “When a girl becomes 8 years old, she is not a ‘jariya’. She is a bridal candidate that I can marry to Utba or Muawiya.Ó” Some scholars say that it is used for girls who are older than 11.

If we look at the issue taking 614 as the year that Surah Qamar was revealed, Aisha would have been born at least eight years before the prophetic mission, or in 606. If we accept 618, then the year of birth would have been 610; this event alone makes it impossible for her to have been 9 when she married.

And what exactly is the significance of Surah Qamar?

Well, it explains the miracle of the split moon… and this means that if she were a young girl at the time, it is entirely possible that Aisha herself would have seen the miracle of the splitting of the moon.

Like I have mentioned, the event of the split moon is recorded as a mutawatir hadith i.e. many people in Makkah witnessed the miracle and going by this account, possibly including Aisha herself.