Where is THAT in the Qu'ran?

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Religions must…and will be judged by the actions of adherents. This is fair…anything else is subjective. Whose religion is violent…intolerent…cruel…intransigent?😦
From a different thread…
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamba2han forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
And so, Muslims really have no fear of misinterpreting the Qur’an because we have the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to refer to in order for us to obtain the most accurate interpretation of the Qur’an possible.

**Well…why Shitte…Sunni…****Wahhabi…******The Kharijites…Druze… Sufi…******Nation of Islam…and on and on.

**Christians admit to different interpretations of various aspects of the Bible. Except the core believe about Jesus. If you have the most accurate interpretation of the Qur’an possible…meaning exactly what God wants you to know…then why are there so many sects in Islam?
 
I’m not sure Druze really consider themselves as Muslims, do they? I don’t know. I’ve never met one, but I know they’re fairly distinct even though they ultimately have their roots in Islam.
 
I’m not sure Druze really consider themselves as Muslims, do they? I don’t know. I’ve never met one, but I know they’re fairly distinct even though they ultimately have their roots in Islam.
They appear to be a very exclusive group. I think mainly in Syria…which considers the Easter and I believe Christmas as national holidays.

The list I provided though is not all inclusive. Just a few examples.
 
This is why all along we’ve been saying it could NOT have been The Angel Gabriel who appeared to mohamad.

And where is it written in the OT & NT that The Angel Gabriel would bring down a new “book”?
And where did Gabriel ever use physical violence against anyone and cause such fear in any one? If the Gabriel of the Koran had been the Gabriel of the New Testament…

crosses himself Forgive me Lord, I say this only to condemn heresy…

…then when the Theotokos asked him, “How can I have a child, since no man has known me?”, he would have leg-dropped her and screamed, “YOU’RE HAVIN’ THIS BABY AND LIKIN’ IT!!”
 
And where did Gabriel ever use physical violence against anyone and cause such fear in any one? If the Gabriel of the Koran had been the Gabriel of the New Testament…

crosses himself Forgive me Lord, I say this only to condemn heresy…

…then when the Theotokos asked him, “How can I have a child, since no man has known me?”, he would have leg-dropped her and screamed, “YOU’RE HAVIN’ THIS BABY AND LIKIN’ IT!!”
:rotfl:
 
that the devil so tightly has embraced modern society that we do not see what’s embracing us anymore… You get the image I am sure. We call slavery “freedom”.
You may start by looking at the view of sexuality in societies where adultery, fornication, public nudity, abortion, prostitution and pornography are regarded as natural, where concepts such as sin and shame are denied as part of human experience- indeed as something that makes us human (imagine a person who cannot feel shame… a terrible thought, no?)… Sexuality is one of the most valuable things in human life, one that calls for respect and protection… its of the things that every religious society has protected and guarded throughout history( in Christianity sexual intercourse is seen as the utmost expression of holy love between man and wife, in an exclusive and creating act). Today the world-view of “the happy savage” makes our young people slide their wrists… and we want to teach the Muslims?
Like Islam, modern secularism does not respect the deepest things about the dignity of the human person and thus about man’s call to love and be loved, making a himself gift of love and thereby finding himself.
http://forums.catholic-questions.or...atholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif :blessyou: Grace.
 
Dear Sam,
you should quote the last part of my post too:
As Padre Pio once said: one cannot fight satan(Islam) with satan(atheism).
It has the same root… the degradation and objectivation which is found in both systems because neither respect the total dignity of the human person…
We need to start with ourselves as modern societies and seek out the values on which we rest our right to be called civilised compared to the barbarity of Islam, which means, modern secular society needs to become Christian again.
.
Here the Church has the key… the only key for the individual and society: the Love of Christ.

You know Sam… the ones who don’t have the right to judge others, are first and foremost the one’s who never try to teach his surroundings a better way.
We are all called to be disciples who spread the Gospel… there are many ways of doing this, even for you.
Meditate on that during Christmas. You have been chosen my Christ to be His Arms and Feet, to speak His Words, and Love with His love.

Peace be with you Sam.
 
I’m not sure Druze really consider themselves as Muslims, do they? I don’t know. I’ve never met one, but I know they’re fairly distinct even though they ultimately have their roots in Islam.
Hi dzheremi…

I found this…(from this link…i-cias.com/e.o/druze.htm)

Druze
his article
  1. Theology
  2. Meaning of the Druze star
  3. Life styles
  4. Organization of the community
  5. History
    (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
    y
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Religion and group of people with somewhere between 350,000 (estimate of Western scholars) and 900,000 (figures presented by the Druze) members (LookLex estimates that around 600,000 live in the Middle East and nearly 700,000 all over the world), living in Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and Jordan, often in mountainous regions. There are also important Druze communities abroad, living in Europe and USA.
http://i-cias.com/e.o/x/t.gifWhile the Druze are not regarded as Muslims by other Muslims, they regard themselves as Muslims as well as carriers of the core of this Islam. The Druze seem, to a large extent, to have originated from a group of Shi’is, the Isma’ilis, but they have diverged much, and the Koran does not seem to be a part of their religion.
http://i-cias.com/e.o/x/t.gifThe Druze call themselves muwahhidun, ‘monotheists’.
 
American muslims commiting violent acts and plotting the same in America and in other lands. British muslims commiting violent acts against native Brits and others. Christians persecuted in predominately islamic countries. islamic countries denying the holocast while plotting and threatening to commit another…even more bloody holocast.
" Where is that in the koran?" I won’t argue about whether it is or it isn’t…but muslims seem to think that it is…that is enough for me.😦
 
American muslims commiting violent acts and plotting the same in America and in other lands. British muslims commiting violent acts against native Brits and others. Christians persecuted in predominately islamic countries. islamic countries denying the holocast while plotting and threatening to commit another…even more bloody holocast.
" Where is that in the koran?" I won’t argue about whether it is or it isn’t…but muslims seem to think that it is…that is enough for me.😦
Sure got quiet around here …didn’t it?😉
 
Would you think it was OK if some middle-aged man had sex with YOUR nine year old daughter???
We are talking about a time when this was common even in the place surrounding the vatican. History is littered with proof. Have you opened a book lately? Sadly people have a short term memory.
 
We are talking about a time when this was common even in the place surrounding the vatican. History is littered with proof. Have you opened a book lately? Sadly people have a short term memory.
Did people marry then have sex with kids based on dreams they had?
 
American muslims commiting violent acts and plotting the same in America and in other lands. British muslims commiting violent acts against native Brits and others. Christians persecuted in predominately islamic countries. islamic countries denying the holocast while plotting and threatening to commit another…even more bloody holocast.
" Where is that in the koran?" I won’t argue about whether it is or it isn’t…but muslims seem to think that it is…that is enough for me.😦
Here are a few of over 100:

3.28 Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

Quran teaches prejudice:
3:110”You are the best nation ever to be brought forth for people. You order honor and forbid dishonor, and you believe in Allah. Had the people of the book believed, it would have surely been better for them. Some of them are believers, but most of them are evildoers.”

4.74 Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great.

4.89 They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing: But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-.

Don’t be a lazy believer!!
4.95 Not equal are those believers who sit and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit. Unto all Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit by a special reward,-

Non-muslims are the enemy:
4.101 When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.

Not really violent but says alot about this allah of theirs:
5.51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

8.39 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.

Some believe that this verse abrogates all the peaceful ones:
9.5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem; but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

**9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. **

9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah’s curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

The only sure way a Muslim can reach paradise:
9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

The beheadings:
8.12 Remember thy Lord inspired the angels: “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”
8.13 This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.

47.4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly: thereafter either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus: but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them; but in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.

98.6 Those who reject, among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein. They are the worst of creatures.

Mulims will say these are taken out of context. Problem is there is no context the Quran is very vaque and not compiled in chronological order. Even so this proves the Quran is nothing more then a war manual.
 
Violence against wife:
4.34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means: For Allah is Most High, great.

Violence against child -Can be used to say it is ok to have sexual intercourse with a prebuscent girl:
65.4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses: for those who carry, their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

Here is the verse about abrogation, don’t forget the peacful verses but the violent ones are better!
2.106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
 
Violence against wife:
4.34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means: For Allah is Most High, great.

Violence against child -Can be used to say it is ok to have sexual intercourse with a prebuscent girl:
65.4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses: for those who carry, their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

Here is the verse about abrogation, don’t forget the peacful verses but the violent ones are better!
2.106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
It is a peaceful religion hijacked by terrorists! Yeh…right! :nope:

Jesus preached peace and love. Satan preaches hate and violence. Any similarities here?
 
Originally Posted by PureHeart
We are talking about a time when this was common even in the place surrounding the vatican. History is littered with proof. Have you opened a book lately? Sadly people have a short term memory.
Did people marry then have sex with kids based on dreams they had?

Yes indeed - and in addition to BWolf’s post, PureHeart, how many of them were “prophets of God”?
 
Hi dzheremi…

I found this…(from this link…i-cias.com/e.o/druze.htm)

Druze
his article
  1. Theology
  2. Meaning of the Druze star
  3. Life styles
  4. Organization of the community
  5. History
    http://i-cias.com/e.o/x/t.gif
    y
http://i-cias.com/e.o/x/t.gif

http://i-cias.com/e.o/x/t.gif
Religion and group of people with somewhere between 350,000 (estimate of Western scholars) and 900,000 (figures presented by the Druze) members (LookLex estimates that around 600,000 live in the Middle East and nearly 700,000 all over the world), living in Lebanon, Syria, Israel, and Jordan, often in mountainous regions. There are also important Druze communities abroad, living in Europe and USA.
http://i-cias.com/e.o/x/t.gifWhile the Druze are not regarded as Muslims by other Muslims, they regard themselves as Muslims as well as carriers of the core of this Islam. The Druze seem, to a large extent, to have originated from a group of Shi’is, the Isma’ilis, but they have diverged much, and the Koran does not seem to be a part of their religion.
http://i-cias.com/e.o/x/t.gifThe Druze call themselves muwahhidun, ‘monotheists’.
I have read some of this and to tell you the truth, if they read the Koran then they would know that Mohammed didn’t equate peaceful Muslims with the violent ones and called the peaceful ones inferior. I would have to say that I can see why the other sects of Islam do’t consider the Druze Muslims. I don’t know how anyone who professes to be truly peaceful can follow Mohammed, how do they rationalize what he did and being peaceful?
 
And the Muslims who have replied before me, I am bemused seeing their effort to drag the discussion off-topic.
Thank you so so much for that. 😃 Sadly there are some bad apples on the forum who ruin it for the others. As I’ve said before, I feel bad for the good Muslim posters on this forum who have to post alongside the bad ones. If I saw Christians responding to Muslims the way some Muslims on this forum respond to Christians, I would be humiliated.
An interesting link. I was wondering if I could ask a few questions regarding the points made in the response.
Firstly, Prophet’s proposal to `Aisha came through a suggestion made by Khawalh bint Hakim as a sign of strengthening the relation with his Companion Abu Bakr and confirming his love for him.
Was it truly necessary, after all they had been through, for Mohammad to strengthen his relationship with Abu Bakr? I would love to strengthen my relationship with dependable coworkers or good friends, but I can do it through means other than marriage.

Also, I’m curious about where IslamOnline is getting this account of why Mohammad married Aisha. According to a sahih hadith source narrated by Aisha herself:

Narrated 'Aisha:
Allah’s Apostle said (to me), "You were shown to me in a dream. An angel brought you to me, wrapped in a piece of silken cloth, and said to me, ‘This is your wife.’ I removed the piece of cloth from your face, and there you were. I said to myself. ‘If it is from Allah, then it will surely be.’ " [Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 57]
Secondly, the fact that Aisha, before the Prophet proposed to her, was being pursued by Jubair ibn Mutam, indicates that she was mature enough for marriage, according to the prevailing tradition at that time…
Many sahih sources say that Aisha was six years old when Mohammad married her. Was this “mature enough for marriage”?
Aisha was not the first case, for many girls married at her same age to men who were at their fathers’ age. Hala, the cousin of Amina bint Wahb was married to Abdul-Muttalib on the same day his son Abdullah married Aminah bint Wahb who was at Hala’s same age. Also, the Companion `Umar ibn Al-Khattab married the daughter of Ali ibn Abi Talib, may Allah honor his face, while he was at her grandpa’s age.
There is no doubt that young women have married much older men throughout history (and still do), the question is how young are the women when they are married. Is the responder saying that those women were all equally as young as Aisha?
It should be noted that in the hot regions, it’s normal for a girl to attain maturity at a very early age. Thus the case is totally different from that which does exist in the cold regions where a girl does not attain puberty before 21 [Physicians maintain that the age of puberty in the hot regions normally ranges from 9 to 16].
Is that really a biological fact? That women in hot regions gain maturity quicker? :confused: I would like to see some scientific backing on that.

And while the age of 9 being puberty would fit with the age at which Mohammad and Aisha consummated their marriage, I am curious if there are any hadith sources that say this is specifically why Mohammad waited until she was 9. I would also like to know if this makes it all right (let alone morally appealing) for a man in his 50’s (which IslamOnline admits to) to have sexual relations with a girl that young - she may still be in puberty, yes, but that is still very young. The responder’s point of saying Mohammad was 15 when he married his older first wife fits along with this problem: there’s a big difference between a 15-year old, man or woman, and a 9-year old.
 
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