Where is the harmony?

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Abba

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Hello Brothers and Sisters,

I wonder if you can explain to me how it is that God severs ties with a person who is in mortal sin, yet, it has been my experience that Jesus does not abandon us. Our Lord call us anyway and that is how some of us have found our way back. I am trying to find harmony with the Church’s teaching that if we are in mortal sin God stays away and my own personal experience.

When I was a little girl, all I wanted to be was a nun. I never thought of being anything else. My Catholic upbringing abruptly stopped at the age of nine when I was sent to America. My family in the USA did not practice the faith and being a ‘nun’ was certainly not part of the America Dream. It did not work out for me and I went tumbling with life and landed in the periphery of the Church as an adult. Practicing the faith my way and at my convenience and with my rules. While out there, however, I was in mortal sin, yet, Jesus and Mary did not abandon me and it is because of them that I found my way back.

So, how is it that people say that Jesus stays away if and when we are in mortal sin? Jesus doesn’t leave us, He continues to call us. How does this work?
 
God doesn’t “sever ties.”

We are bound to God by a covenant. Covenant’s create family bonds and covenants never end until one member of the covenant dies. God’s promises under the covenant stand firm and he never goes back on his word.

We drive the Holy Spirit from us when we sin, but the Holy Spirit hovers about, close by, waiting to return because God loves us as beloved sons and daughters, members of his covenant family.

I was in sin for 44 years of my life. Gop was with me every step of the way because he knew I would call to him one day in my need.

-Tim-
 
We are all sinners, yet God in his merciful love welcomes us back with open arms every time. That is why he gave us the Sacrament of Reconciliation. He tells us “Be Not Afraid, I Am With You Always” That is why I am so grateful to God for my Catholic faith. I can go to confession, and walk away knowing I am loved.
 
Abba said:
Hello Brothers and Sisters,

I wonder if you can explain to me how it is that God severs ties with a person who is in mortal sin, yet, it has been my experience that Jesus does not abandon us. Our Lord call us anyway and that is how some of us have found our way back. I am trying to find harmony with the Church’s teaching that if we are in mortal sin God stays away and my own personal experience.

When I was a little girl, all I wanted to be was a nun. I never thought of being anything else. My Catholic upbringing abruptly stopped at the age of nine when I was sent to America. My family in the USA did not practice the faith and being a ‘nun’ was certainly not part of the America Dream. It did not work out for me and I went tumbling with life and landed in the periphery of the Church as an adult. Practicing the faith my way and at my convenience and with my rules. While out there, however, I was in mortal sin, yet, Jesus and Mary did not abandon me and it is because of them that I found my way back.

So, how is it that people say that Jesus stays away if and when we are in mortal sin? Jesus doesn’t leave us, He continues to call us. How does this work?
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Jesus doesn’t stay away. It is we who leave Him, and stay away from Him as long as we choose to reject His guidance and choose instead to pursue a path where He is not present. Our Lord’s parable of the prodigal son gives a clear picture. Luke 15:11 and following.
 
tawny said:
We are all sinners, yet God in his merciful love welcomes us back with open arms every time. That is why he gave us the Sacrament of Reconciliation. He tells us “Be Not Afraid, I Am With You Always” That is why I am so grateful to God for my Catholic faith. I can go to confession, and walk away knowing I am loved.
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If God is so merciful and loving, then why does this offer suddenly change right upon our death? If God loved us as much as proclaimed, it would not matter if we were alive or dead, how many parents stop loving their kids just because they died?

I truly believe God offers us all a ‘last chance’ whether it be seconds before our bodies die, or seconds after, when ever it happens, all that is important, is that is DOES happen. Furthermore, I think God knows what is in each one of us and knows our hearts, I think the only ones who truly end up in hell are the ones who absolutely hate God and anything to do with him. No one can convince me, that just because we are alive or dead, in the physical sense, makes a difference to God, he loves us alive or dead, and therefore would accept a dead persons crying to be saved…IMO anyway.
 
You are certainly perceiving Church teaching wrongly, Abba.
God does not abandon people who sin a mortal sin, committing a mortal sin is the very act of us abandoning God.
Even after we commit a mortal sin God continues to relentlessly pursue us, and desires to heal us through the sacraments.
 
mikekle said:
If God is so merciful and loving, then why does this offer suddenly change right upon our death? If God loved us as much as proclaimed, it would not matter if we were alive or dead, how many parents stop loving their kids just because they died?

I truly believe God offers us all a ‘last chance’ whether it be seconds before our bodies die, or seconds after, when ever it happens, all that is important, is that is DOES happen. Furthermore, I think God knows what is in each one of us and knows our hearts, I think the only ones who truly end up in hell are the ones who absolutely hate God and anything to do with him. No one can convince me, that just because we are alive or dead, in the physical sense, makes a difference to God, he loves us alive or dead, and therefore would accept a dead persons crying to be saved…IMO anyway.
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Of course. God doesn’t simply stop caring when we die. And he will accept us whenever he come to him.

The problem lies in the fact of death itself. Death, in a certain sense, solidifies our life choices. All of our life is geared and providentially arranged towards a choice for or against God.
As they say, an open mouth is meant to close on something. Human beings are made for a decisive point of choosing. We confess and believe through God’s providence that by death people will make a definitive choice for or against God.
 
mikekle said:
If God is so merciful and loving, then why does this offer suddenly change right upon our death? If God loved us as much as proclaimed, it would not matter if we were alive or dead, how many parents stop loving their kids just because they died?

I truly believe God offers us all a ‘last chance’ whether it be seconds before our bodies die, or seconds after, when ever it happens, all that is important, is that is DOES happen. Furthermore, I think God knows what is in each one of us and knows our hearts, I think the only ones who truly end up in hell are the ones who absolutely hate God and anything to do with him. No one can convince me, that just because we are alive or dead, in the physical sense, makes a difference to God, he loves us alive or dead, and therefore would accept a dead persons crying to be saved…IMO anyway.
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That is why He says, “I am with you always”. God never leaves us.
 
Hi, Abba.

God does not abandon us, but he allows us (by giving us free will) to abandon him. This abandonment is also called “moral sin.”

You cannot actually be sure you were in a state of mortal sin. The Church teaches that we cannot know this for sure even about ourselves (in Church lingo, we cannot know “with theological certainty”).

But let’s suppose someone baptized but is in a state of mortal sin. This person has turned his back on God and forfeited salvific (saving) Grace. If this person dies in such a state then he cannot enter heaven.

However, there is also a Grace called “prevenient grace.” Prevenient grace will not save us (only the grace of Christian baptism guarantees this). Everyone on earth is affected by prevenient grace - it is what calls us to God in the first place, and it’s what calls us back to him if we turn away. It also acts on us while in a state of Grace, to draw us into an even closer relationship with God.
 
mikekle said:
So, he is still with all those souls in hell as well as all souls in heaven and earth?
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Yes, I do believe God still loves those souls. It was their free will that made them choose to remain in mortal sin and die in mortal sin. But we do not know if at their hour of death they made an unknown plea to God for forgiveness. If they did, I’m sure God had forgiven them. For those who may not have made an unknown plea for forgiveness, I still believe God loves them. God bless you.
 
Abba, being in a state of mortal sin is like putting on blackened glasses. The sun is still shining, but we have blocked it out. The attachment to our sin blinds us to the sanctifying grace of God, so makes it impossible for us to truly accept that grace. The personal graces – all the gifts from our heartbeat to our family, friends, wealth, etc. – are still there, but the holiness from sanctifying grace diminishes them instead of “polishing” them. Those actual graces are all from God, and clearly signs of His unending love for us.
 
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