Where is the line and why?

[RCWarrior821]

I know premarital sex is wrong because the body and is making a promise we are not ready to make because we are not married. But what about for two people that truly love each other and are sure God has put them together. What is these people participate in mutual masturbation as well as intense kissing are a way of being intimate. No lustful thoughts or desires but just a desire to be as closer as possible without having sex (oral sex included) Is this against the Church’s teaching?

Can you please provided Catechism references. Thank you

 

[passus]

I know premarital sex is wrong because the body and is making a promise we are not ready to make because we are not married. But what about for two people that truly love each other and are sure God has put them together.

If the two people truly love each other and are sure of the hand of God’s providence in their relationship, then most surely they would adhere to the teachings of His Church and wait for the day of their marriage before engaging in sexual relations of any sort.

What is these people participate in mutual masturbation as well as intense kissing are a way of being intimate.

Masturbation, even between married persons, unless it culminates in sexual intercourse, is not permitted because that act is intrinsically closed to the creation of new life.

By *masturbation *is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved” (CCC2352).

No lustful thoughts or desires but just a desire to be as closer as possible without having sex (oral sex included) Is this against the Church’s teaching?

Such efforts are futile. There is no way a couple, by masturbation or kissing, could hope to come anywhere near the kind of unity, self-giving, and truly selfless love that is possible only between a married man and woman.

 

[RCWarrior821]

ah perfect, thank you

 

[BlestOne]

What about the sin of presumption? thepillarandgroundoftruth.blogspot.com/2006/12/presumption.html

 

[luvHumanaeVitae]

What about the intense kissing? What is the general answer to that???

 

[GraceDK]

I know premarital sex is wrong because the body and is making a promise we are not ready to make because we are not married. But what about for two people that truly love each other and are sure God has put them together. What is these people participate in mutual masturbation as well as intense kissing are a way of being intimate. No lustful thoughts or desires but just a desire to be as closer as possible without having sex (oral sex included) Is this against the Church’s teaching?

Can you please provided Catechism references. Thank you

If you were practicing the things you mention and asking for advice I would tell you this:
You are not this girl’s husband.
So keep your hands off her and respect her and her dignity, purity and even virginity. If you cannot protect her now how will you ever gain her respect as the leader of your household? The closer she comes to Jesus Christ the more she will wonder why you are not respecting her purity and protecting her in stead of robbing her. See its not about how far you can go but about how much you can save your self for marriage.
… And behaving like this is far from Christlike. You know that, or you would not be here.
There are many ways of having sex. Not just intercourse. What you are doing is losing your own innocense and destroying it for someone else too. The degree of physical intimacy that you describe is for the marital bed. What you do is no less fornication than having intercourse. You need to go to confession and straighten up your life.
Jesus says: “Woe to the one that leads a little one to fall”… and the Bible repeatedly condemns people that seduce a virgin.
If you love her why cant you wait with these things until the appropriate time? If you will get married anyway then whats the rush? Dont tell me its love. You know well that its your own desire in your body that drives you and not love for her soul.
You make both you and her sinners.
Step back and understand that true manliness equals self control and pure love.

for further resources:
www.pureloveclub.com