Where is the line between anger at God and blasphemy?

[Convert_in_99]

I have had numerous priest say that during the great trials of life it is ok and even somewhat necessary to vent our frustrations and anger to God. Yes to even get angry with Him. When would this natural stage of human grief/suffering turn into blaspheming God? I guess it’s hard for me to tell the difference. I will often confess I get too angry/mad at God when I feel I’ve gone too far in venting, but maybe that’s actually blasphemy? Don’t know. And be gentle I’m very scrupulous.

 

[dshix]

I have had numerous priest say that during the great trials of life it is ok and even somewhat necessary to vent our frustrations and anger to God. Yes to even get angry with Him. When would this natural stage of human grief/suffering turn into blaspheming God? I guess it’s hard for me to tell the difference. I will often confess I get too angry/mad at God when I feel I’ve gone too far in venting, but maybe that’s actually blasphemy? Don’t know. And be gentle I’m very scrupulous.

Angry with God? Never permissible. I believe that your priests are probably trying to tell you that you should speak to God about your anger and frustration, and ask for help to be free from it, but never to actually be angry at God.

God is utter perfection. There is **no just reason for being angry with Him.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Angry with God? Never permissible. I believe that your priests are probably trying to tell you that you should speak to God about your anger and frustration, and ask for help to be free from it, but never to actually be angry at God.

God is utter perfection. There is **no *just ***reason for being angry with Him.

Ok I guess we just disagree here.

 

[dshix]

Ok I guess we just disagree here.

Hmm. Ok, well, can you tell me when you would have justification for being angry at God? What has He ever done to be deserving of anger being directed against Him?

 

[Convert_in_99]

Hmm. Ok, well, can you tell me when you would have justification for being angry at God? What has He ever done to be deserving of anger being directed against Him?

He permits our crosses, it’s only natural to be upset. We didn’t ask to be born, we just get all this thrust upon us. Yes sometimes we make things worse through sin, but sometimes it’s just part of being alive. Life is hard, and I have a life that is chock full of pain. Yes, honestly,I would have preferred to not exist. There is nothing wrong with that. It just is what it is. I have to come to grips that I’m stuck in existence and just hope I don’t get damned into a worst existence. Again I am very mentally ill so please be gentle. This is what past spiritual directors have said was ok so I presume it is, especially since more than one okayed it.

 

[dshix]

He permits our crosses, it’s only natural to be upset. We didn’t ask to be born, we just get all this thrust upon us. Yes sometimes we make things worse through sin, but sometimes it’s just part of being alive. Life is hard, and I have a life that is chock full of pain. Yes, honestly,I would have preferred to not exist. There is nothing wrong with that. It just is what it is. I have to come to grips that I’m stuck in existence and just hope I don’t get damned into a worst existence. Again I am very mentally ill so please be gentle. This is what past spiritual directors have said was ok so I presume it is, especially since more than one okayed it.

I really do feel your position. Crosses are hard.

There are a few things I’d like to address.

Firstly, I don’t think it is healthy for you to consider yourself “mentally ill”. That is a medical diagnosis which only a mental health professional has the right to diagnose; not even several wise priests should give you such a diagnosis.

Secondly, we should be clear on what we mean by anger. Anger is the feeling of ire against a perceived injustice. The shop owner has righteous anger at the thief who steals his possessions. The child has immature (not righteous) anger at his parent who disciplines him, because that child has an incomplete view of justice.

When you say that you have anger against something, it is because you perceive an injustice.

God Himself is incapable of perpetuating injustice. Yes, He gives us challenges and crosses, but these are not injustice: rather, they are suffering which gives us an opportunity to grow stronger in His grace.

Consider that we are dust; we are worms; we are snakes. We humans are wholly undeserving of any kindness or love from God, because we have renounced Him a million times with our sins. Yet He continues to love us, continues to lead us. We should not begrudge the sufferings that come our way, because they are what we deserve, and only by faithfully fighting through them with love in our hearts can we be saved.

I’m so sorry for the sufferings you are going through, perhaps with your family, perhaps with your own mental health, perhaps with your faith life. But remember that God is always just, always merciful, and only by loving, adoring, and serving Him can you ever escape from the pains of suffering and reach Heaven.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I really do feel your position. Crosses are hard.

There are a few things I’d like to address.

Firstly, I don’t think it is healthy for you to consider yourself “mentally ill”. That is a medical diagnosis which only a mental health professional has the right to diagnose; not even several wise priests should give you such a diagnosis.

Secondly, we should be clear on what we mean by anger. Anger is the feeling of ire against a perceived injustice. The shop owner has righteous anger at the thief who steals his possessions. The child has immature (not righteous) anger at his parent who disciplines him, because that child has an incomplete view of justice.

When you say that you have anger against something, it is because you perceive an injustice.

God Himself is incapable of perpetuating injustice. Yes, He gives us challenges and crosses, but these are not injustice: rather, they are suffering which gives us an opportunity to grow stronger in His grace.

Consider that we are dust; we are worms; we are snakes. We humans are wholly undeserving of any kindness or love from God, because we have renounced Him a million times with our sins. Yet He continues to love us, continues to lead us. We should not begrudge the sufferings that come our way, because they are what we deserve, and only by faithfully fighting through them with love in our hearts can we be saved.

I’m so sorry for the sufferings you are going through, perhaps with your family, perhaps with your own mental health, perhaps with your faith life. But remember that God is always just, always merciful, and only by loving, adoring, and serving Him can you ever escape from the pains of suffering and reach Heaven.

Thank you for this gentle answer. I will read it and think on it.

As for the mental illness unfortunately mine is very real. It’s been diagnosed and confirmed by many psychiatrists, psychologists and counsellors. I am on three regular and one as needed medications for it. It keeps me from holding down work and socializing and a healthy relationship with God and others. It is a debilitating life long illness for me and I have only made minimal progress towards healing.

 

[edward_george]

I would have to disagree that it’s never permissible to be angry at God. Anger is a natural, normal part of the human experience, and sometimes it is through that anger that we come to a deeper understanding of how God is working in our lives–even if we don’t like it necessarily.

I would also point to passages in Scripture that indicate anger or exasperation with God. Psalms 13, 22 (quoted from the Cross by Jesus), 35, and 42 all indicate certain intense emotions, even directed toward God, in times of great distress. The entire book of Habakkuk as well is of this general tone.

Where the line is crossed is when we allow the anger to consume us and to begin to blot out our vision of God and our love for him; in short, to harden our hearts against God. We are often angry at people we love, and this anger is not wrong of itself–anger is an emotion, and a normal reaction to things that don’t necessarily go our way, whether this is a just attitude to have or not. Where that kind of anger becomes sinful is when we let it kill our relationships with others. Why should it be different with God? Perhaps our anger toward him in times of crisis would actually lead us closer to him–perhaps it would lead to a moment of conversion; it’s never pleasant to be angry, and in realizing this, we could maybe come to the point where we’d realize that God is right. Or perhaps we’ve misunderstood him. Thus the anger is resolved and so is the tension that leads to it. It’s a complex question, and one which is not lightly dismissed.

-ACEGC

 

[Convert_in_99]

I would have to disagree that it’s never permissible to be angry at God. Anger is a natural, normal part of the human experience, and sometimes it is through that anger that we come to a deeper understanding of how God is working in our lives–even if we don’t like it necessarily.

I would also point to passages in Scripture that indicate anger or exasperation with God. Psalms 13, 22 (quoted from the Cross by Jesus), 35, and 42 all indicate certain intense emotions, even directed toward God, in times of great distress. The entire book of Habakkuk as well is of this general tone.

Where the line is crossed is when we allow the anger to consume us and to begin to blot out our vision of God and our love for him; in short, to harden our hearts against God. We are often angry at people we love, and this anger is not wrong of itself–anger is an emotion, and a normal reaction to things that don’t necessarily go our way, whether this is a just attitude to have or not. Where that kind of anger becomes sinful is when we let it kill our relationships with others. Why should it be different with God? Perhaps our anger toward him in times of crisis would actually lead us closer to him–perhaps it would lead to a moment of conversion; it’s never pleasant to be angry, and in realizing this, we could maybe come to the point where we’d realize that God is right. Or perhaps we’ve misunderstood him. Thus the anger is resolved and so is the tension that leads to it. It’s a complex question, and one which is not lightly dismissed.

-ACEGC

Thank you so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut. . I’m glad I’m not the only one who has been taught this. Though Dshix does make some good points too and I realize that suffering is all a part of original sin, but I have trouble with everyone getting punished for one persons fall. I understand being punished for personal sin, but not original sin. That’s the topic for a new thread though!

 

[Tom_Baum]

I believe, firmly believe, that God wants honesty from us and if one is angry at God, than so be it, we should be able to bring anything to God.

If one is “angry at God” but will not bring it to God for whatever reason, what is one to do with this “anger”, pretend that it doesn’t exist?

Seems to me that if one is “angry at God”, than God already knows this, so what better way of dealing with this that bringing it to God in honesty and whatever comes of it, comes of it.

 

[seagal]

Angry with God? Never permissible. I believe that your priests are probably trying to tell you that you should speak to God about your anger and frustration, and ask for help to be free from it, but never to actually be angry at God.

God is utter perfection. There is **no *just ***reason for being angry with Him.

God is indeed utter perfection, but we are utterly imperfect humans.
Of course it’s permissible to be angry at God. As our bishop said in his homily last Sunday, the emotion of anger is not in itself a sin. It’s a natural reaction to circumstances. In Psalm 35 (a prayer for deliverance from enemies) the psalmist pleas for God to help him. He recounts all the wicked things his enemy has done to him and asks God for protection again and again. Finally he says (verses 22-24):

You have seen, O Lord; be not silent!
O Lord, be not far from me!
Bestir yourself, and awake for my right,
for my cause, my God and my Lord!

The emphasis shown with the exclamation marks indicates that he has gone from pleading to demanding God do something already! This is definitely frustration, and maybe a touch of anger. (Of course he’s is also praising God while he’s railing at him.) But God understands and forgives our human frailties.

 

[dshix]

God is indeed utter perfection, but we are utterly imperfect humans.
Of course it’s permissible to be angry at God. As our bishop said in his homily last Sunday, the emotion of anger is not in itself a sin. It’s a natural reaction to circumstances. In Psalm 35 (a prayer for deliverance from enemies) the psalmist pleas for God to help him. He recounts all the wicked things his enemy has done to him and asks God for protection again and again. Finally he says (verses 22-24):

I was not referring to the emotion of anger, but to the act of the will of anger. I should have clarified that in my post, since I see that that is an easy source of confusion.

I am sure that you would not condone the act of the will to be angry with God. That is a grave sin.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I was not referring to the emotion of anger, but to the act of the will of anger. I should have clarified that in my post, since I see that that is an easy source of confusion.

I am sure that you would not condone the act of the will to be angry with God. That is a grave sin.

Hmm…ok throw the words grave sin in front of a scrupulous is not a good idea unless it is absolutely necessary. Is it? What do others think on this? How can I help telling God how I feel. He knows it already. Why is it a mortal sin to tell Him what He already knows?

 

[dshix]

Hmm…ok throw the words grave sin in front of a scrupulous is not a good idea unless it is absolutely necessary. Is it? What do others think on this? How can I help telling God how I feel. He knows it already. Why is it a mortal sin to tell Him what He already knows?

Heh, I don’t want to unnecessarily worry you. Seagal brought up a good point: that having an emotional feeling of anger rise up is not, in itself, a sin. It can become a sin, but it is not a sin itself. This emotional feeling of anger is what I think you may be experiencing.

However, throughout this thread, I have been referring to the act of the will of anger, which is a calculated anger against a perceived injustice. This sort of anger should never be directed at God.
Here’s an example: a man’s wife dies in childbirth. The man blames God for this horrible thing happening to him and holds a vengeful anger in his heart against God for the rest of his life. Something like that is a mortal sin.

 

[seagal]

Heh, I don’t want to unnecessarily worry you. Seagal brought up a good point: that having an emotional feeling of anger rise up is not, in itself, a sin. It can become a sin, but it is not a sin itself. This emotional feeling of anger is what I think you may be experiencing.

However, throughout this thread, I have been referring to the act of the will of anger, which is a calculated anger against a perceived injustice. This sort of anger should never be directed at God.
Here’s an example: a man’s wife dies in childbirth. The man blames God for this horrible thing happening to him and holds a vengeful anger in his heart against God for the rest of his life. Something like that is a mortal sin.

To be clear, this kind of anger should not be directed at anybody, not just God. But again, we are only human and feeling angry at times is only natural. There was a time in my life (many years ago) that I was so angry with God that I gave him an ultimatum! And when he didn’t do what I wanted I didn’t speak to him for at least a year! What can I say, anger isn’t exactly a rational emotion. Needless to say, we’ve made up since then.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Heh, I don’t want to unnecessarily worry you. Seagal brought up a good point: that having an emotional feeling of anger rise up is not, in itself, a sin. It can become a sin, but it is not a sin itself. This emotional feeling of anger is what I think you may be experiencing.

However, throughout this thread, I have been referring to the act of the will of anger, which is a calculated anger against a perceived injustice. This sort of anger should never be directed at God.
Here’s an example: a man’s wife dies in childbirth. The man blames God for this horrible thing happening to him and holds a vengeful anger in his heart against God for the rest of his life. Something like that is a mortal sin.

Ok so if I am upset at God because of a lot of bad things have happened to me then that’s a mortal sin cause that’s where I am. I don’t want to be mad. I wish there was another way for me to understand but I really don’t think God likes me or He is mad at me for all of my sins so that’s why all these bad things keep happening to me. So yes I do get upset cause he won’t stop permitting all this bad stuff to pile up and I really do feel his anger against me too.

 

[seagal]

I have had numerous priest say that during the great trials of life it is ok and even somewhat necessary to vent our frustrations and anger to God. Yes to even get angry with Him. When would this natural stage of human grief/suffering turn into blaspheming God? I guess it’s hard for me to tell the difference. I will often confess I get too angry/mad at God when I feel I’ve gone too far in venting, but maybe that’s actually blasphemy? Don’t know. And be gentle I’m very scrupulous.

To get back to your original question, there are many psalms that are examples of the psalmist venting his fear, worry, frustration, even anger at God. But even these psalms are also full of praise for God. To blaspheme is to speak with contempt about God or to be defiantly irreverent. You probably careful not to speak to someone you care about that way, and your relationship with God is even more important and more precious. God can’t be hurt by what you say, but you can. So do tell God about how you’re feeling, but remember humility. He is after all your God and your Father. I hope this helps.

 

[BobCatholic]

We should not begrudge the sufferings that come our way, because **they are what we deserve, **.

I disagree with this viewpoint.

Did my little boy deserve to get autism? What did he do to deserve that? What did we do to deserve that? I sometimes blame myself saying it must be my fault. But it is definitely not his fault!
Did me and my wife deserve to be infertile despite being open to life? What did we do to deserve that?
OK, enough about us. What about others?
Do children in the cancer ward deserve to get the cancers they suffer with?
Did the rank and file employees of Enron, Worldcom, etc. deserve to be laid off because the upper management were corrupt?
I could go on and list tons of other examples of undeserved suffering, but what about the biggest one? Did Christ Jesus DESERVE the cross? He is human too!

By saying people deserve their sufferings, it is tantamount to declaring people to be evil.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I disagree with this viewpoint.

Did my little boy deserve to get autism? What did he do to deserve that? What did we do to deserve that? I sometimes blame myself saying it must be my fault. But it is definitely not his fault!
Did me and my wife deserve to be infertile despite being open to life? What did we do to deserve that?
OK, enough about us. What about others?
Do children in the cancer ward deserve to get the cancers they suffer with?
Did the rank and file employees of Enron, Worldcom, etc. deserve to be laid off because the upper management were corrupt?
I could go on and list tons of other examples of undeserved suffering, but what about the biggest one? Did Christ Jesus DESERVE the cross? He is human too!

By saying people deserve their sufferings, it is tantamount to declaring people to be evil.

Some of our sins do get punished, but why the innocent suffer I cannot grasp that.

We also have had infertility. I have severe OCD and I have two autistic nephews.

We sinned sexually before marriage, so I guess we probably do deserve the infertility. But why I will have OCD all my life and my completely innocent nephews have autism is just unfathomable to me!

 

[Convert_in_99]

To get back to your original question, there are many psalms that are examples of the psalmist venting his fear, worry, frustration, even anger at God. But even these psalms are also full of praise for God. To blaspheme is to speak with contempt about God or to be defiantly irreverent. You probably careful not to speak to someone you care about that way, and your relationship with God is even more important and more precious. God can’t be hurt by what you say, but you can. So do tell God about how you’re feeling, but remember humility. He is after all your God and your Father. I hope this helps.

This does help thank you!