Where is the Liturgy Going?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholic_Author
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
This thread is going off topic. Please start new threads or go to existing ones to discuss side issues. Thank you, all.
 
peary said:
**For one thing, Benedict finally allowed the Tridentine Liturgy to be celebrated again which should never have been suppressed. *Never in the history of the Church has it ever suppressed its own liturgy ***like the liberals attempted to do for the past 40+ years. It was a bad pastoral move to make the Church into their own image and likeness. The Novus Ordo, if done properly, is quite beautiful, but both should have been allowed to exist side-by-side from the very beginning so that the spiritual needs of the faithful continued to be met in both. I believe Benedict XVI has taken the proper steps of inclusion.
Click to expand...
Suppressed it was but never abrogated. Had both the extraordinary and ordinary forms been “allowed” to be practiced in the same parishes world wide, then the mutual enrichment that Pope Benedict speaks about could have taken place much sooner and perhaps this muddled modernist stuff could have been avoided. That would have been like two beautiful flowers growing next to each other. Nevertheless, what we have in the Novus Order is a garden where the enemy has sewn seeds overnight. The experimental Mass has been allowed to grow along side the Novus Order that the councils and Popes have planted… until a time when they can be reaped.
 
awalt said:
The great ship is on a journey to SALVATION for us all, with God! The Eucharist, as with all the sacraments, will aid us to get there - they are a means not an end. There are no sacraments in Heaven! And Jesus established the Church to help us get to Heaven, not for any other reason!

While love of Mary, and memorializing the sacrifice of Jesus through the journey are an important part of our faith experience, no way is there anything that’s a destination other than to be with God in heaven! Let’s not lose sight of the forest for the trees…
Click to expand...
There is a sense in which the Eucharist can be considered an end rather than a means. Since the Eucharist is the Real Presence of Christ who is the perfect good, it is not wrong to say that the Eucharist is an end… since there is no food more perfect than Him. That’s part of what makes it possible to offer worship to the Eucharist.

About getting to heaven… in the end it will be a new Heaven that is brought to a new Earth. See Rev 21.
 
benedictgal said:
… His devotion to Mary was great, especially under the title of Mary Help of Christians. He taught us that as long as we held firm to the Holy Eucharist and to Mary, Help of Christians, we couldn’t go wrong.
Click to expand...
SJB also had a devotion to the Immaculate Conception (1854). He switched back and forth a few times in his life. The recently departed Salesian Historian Fr. Pietro Stella noted that SJB’s devotion seemed to change to Mary the Immaculate Conception around the time of the Dream of the Two Columns (1862).

The placard beneath her statue in the dream reads “Auxilum Christianorum” which translated form Latin means Help of Christians… yet Don Bosco when telling the dream is recorded to have said that the column was surmounted by a statue of… and this is where the texts vary. Two of the texts say “Blessed Virgin” one says “Virgin Immaculate”. In my translation I have done what SJB’s biographer Fr. Lemoyne did. I combined the texts. Only where Fr. Lemoyne chose one term over the other I combined them to read “Blessed Virgin Immaculate” so that in my translation there is nothing missing or omitted.
 
Catholic_Author said:
SJB also had a devotion to the Immaculate Conception (1854). He switched back and forth a few times in his life. The recently departed Salesian Historian Fr. Pietro Stella noted that SJB’s devotion seemed to change to Mary the Immaculate Conception around the time of the Dream of the Two Columns (1862).

The placard beneath her statue in the dream reads “Auxilum Christianorum” which translated form Latin means Help of Christians… yet Don Bosco when telling the dream is recorded to have said that the column was surmounted by a statue of… and this is where the texts vary. Two of the texts say “Blessed Virgin” one says “Virgin Immaculate”. In my translation I have done what SJB’s biographer Fr. Lemoyne did. I combined the texts. Only where Fr. Lemoyne chose one term over the other I combined them to read “Blessed Virgin Immaculate” so that in my translation there is nothing missing or omitted.
Click to expand...
Actually, Maria Auxilium Christianorum is one of the tiles of the Blessed Mother invoked in the Litrany of Our Laredo (the one prayed after the recitation of the Rosary). In fact, when I was designing my mother’s headstone, rather than have Our Lady of Guadalupe or Our Lady of San Juan, I had the monument company carve the image of Mary, Help of Christians. On her casket, she had a picture of Mary, Help of Christians which was given to me by my fourth grade teacher.

The Salesian Sisters’ official name is the Daughters of Mary Help of Christians, Filia Maria Auxilium, or, FMA. Why he didn’t include Christianorium is a mystery. Had he done so they would have gone by the initials, FMAC.

Gonig back to the original topic, it is very interesting to note that not only does Pope Benedict have a strong devotion to the Blessed Sacrament, but, he is also very Marian. While he may not be as demonstrative as Pope John Paul II, his devotion, nonetheless, is very concrete. In fact, he wrote a book on Mary along with Fr. Hans Urs Von Balthasaar. Furthermore, if you closely examine his Marian homilies and remarks, you will find some really deep and penetrating teachings. I really do believe that the hand of Mary was directing his election to the Chair of St. Peter.
 
benedictgal said:
Actually, Maria Auxilium Christianorum is one of the tiles of the Blessed Mother invoked in the Litany of Our Laredo (the one prayed after the recitation of the Rosary). In fact, when I was designing my mother’s headstone, rather than have Our Lady of Guadalupe …
Click to expand...
Interesting. Did you know that Pope Pius V added Mary Help of Christians to the Litany of Loretto after the famous naval battle of Lepanto which is attributed to the intersession of Mary, partly because Andrea Dora, Admiral in the Christian forces, carried a small copy of the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe into battle? Pope Pius V also instituted October 7th as the Feast of Our Lady of Victory at the same time as amending the litany. Today, as you know, October 7th is the Feast of the Holy Rosary.
benedictgal said:
Gonig back to the original topic, it is very interesting to note that not only does Pope Benedict have a strong devotion to the Blessed Sacrament, but, he is also very Marian. While he may not be as demonstrative as Pope John Paul II, his devotion, nonetheless, is very concrete. In fact, he wrote a book on Mary along with Fr. Hans Urs Von Balthasaar. Furthermore, if you closely examine his Marian homilies and remarks, you will find some really deep and penetrating teachings. I really do believe that the hand of Mary was directing his election to the Chair of St. Peter.
Click to expand...
I agree, JP II was outwardly Marian even branding his papal seal with an M in her honor. What was the book B XVI wrote with Fr. Hans Urs Von Balthasaar?
 
Catholic_Author said:
Interesting. Did you know that Pope Pius V added Mary Help of Christians to the Litany of Loretto after the famous naval battle of Lepanto which is attributed to the intersession of Mary, partly because Andrea Dora, Admiral in the Christian forces, carried a small copy of the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe into battle? Pope Pius V also instituted October 7th as the Feast of Our Lady of Victory at the same time as amending the litany. Today, as you know, October 7th is the Feast of the Holy Rosary.

I agree, JP II was outwardly Marian even branding his papal seal with an M in her honor. What was the book B XVI wrote with Fr. Hans Urs Von Balthasaar?
Click to expand...
Actually, Pope Benedict has two books. The first one is Daughter Zion, which he wrote on his own. The second one, written with Fr. Hans Urs Von Balthasaar is Mary: The Church at the Source. Now, he also wrote the introduction to Mary: God’s Yes to Man, which accompanied one of John Paul’s encyclicals on Mary. Fr. Von Balthasaar wrote the commentary for the encyclical.

The Blessed Mother plays a key role in Don Bosco’s life. In fact, he first saw her in a “dream” at the age of 9, a dream that led him on his path to the priesthood. Devotion to her was the bulwark that kept him afloat, and, it also sustained him during many difficult periods. That is why it is no small wonder that he firmly believe, as the Church has also believed, that after the first and foremost adoration of God, most especially in the Holy Eucharist, Marian devotion is an important facet to the Faith. The Mother leads us to the Son. The Son, who is God made Man, leads us to the Father.

Mary is also the pattern for the Church. That is why the dream in the OP is so packed with Marian references.
 
benedictgal said:
The Blessed Mother plays a key role in Don Bosco’s life. In fact, he first saw her in a “dream” at the age of 9, a dream that led him on his path to the priesthood.

Mary is also the pattern for the Church. That is why the dream in the OP is so packed with Marian references.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the book titles. I am familiar with all of your points on Mary and SJB… I have addressed all of these points in my book… the battle of Lepanto (pgs 21, 22), the Litany of Leretto (pg 22 174-176), his first vocational dream (i.e. the one where mary and Jesus show him the animals that are fighting (pg4), … he tries force to break it up and Jesus and Mary teach him to love them… one by one they turn to lambs etc.) Mary as the model and help of the Church (pg 104 - 110)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top