Where is the Oldest Bible?

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Scottgun said:
Corrupted Scripture or lost message? A difference I suppose, but not a meaningful one as they both assertions would add up to unreliable scripture.
While it is certainly profitable to discuss the reliability of Scriputres, it has to be remembered that Scripture is a remote rule of faith, the Church is the proximate rule of faith. This means that non-Catholic Christians and Muslims share something in common that the Catholic Church does not: complete reliance on a text. And a discussion that does not wrestle with that will not go far.
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Somehow, I don’t think that’s an argument that will weigh very heavily with Sufi! 😛
 
How is it Muslims have so little knowledge of the scriptures that they love to criticize so much? Especially when the points they’re trying to use to sling mud apply even more to the Quran than the Bible?
 
exoflare said:
How is it Muslims have so little knowledge of the scriptures that they love to criticize so much? Especially when the points they’re trying to use to sling mud apply even more to the Quran than the Bible?
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Let’s try to keep this on a cool-headed plane. When it comes to the authentication of Scripture, the Judaeo Christian continuum is solid.
 
If pictures can be post of the oldest Bible that will be appreciated also. The more eveidence the better for my research thank you.
 
Scottgun said:
Corrupted Scripture or lost message? A difference I suppose, but not a meaningful one as they both assertions would add up to unreliable scripture.
While it is certainly profitable to discuss the reliability of Scriputres, it has to be remembered that Scripture is a remote rule of faith, the Church is the proximate rule of faith. This means that non-Catholic Christians and Muslims share something in common that the Catholic Church does not: complete reliance on a text. And a discussion that does not wrestle with that will not go far.
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Lost and misinterpreted message. The word corrupted makes it seem as people intentionally added and subtracted from it. I don’t believe it was intentional.
Mercy Gate, you seem to be the only one trying to help here. Can you please continue to help. If it’s going to cause Exoflare and others to war with me, please pm me any authentic information. Thank you. 🙂
 
mercygate said:
I appreciate your eagerness. But sometimes you just have to wade through the material.
The Bible was never “banned across the globe.” If you are referring to times when copies were scarce, they were still available – and CAREFULLY treasured. It is estimated that a pulpit Bible would have cost the modern equivalent of $500,000 in the middle ages. People took care of those books.

Again, the Christian canon was established in full by the late 4th Century. Even if a book like the Apocalypse didn’t make it into one collection of the books, it still existed.

Take a look at the textual appartus, complete with manuscript provenance, that accompanies a scholarly edition of the Bible. It will give you a better idea of how carefully these things are documented.
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This is a little more informative, but you are not showing me any proof of your statements. People took care of these books? How do you know? And if so can I see a picture of the oldest one that they CAREFULLY took care of?
 
mercygate said:
Somehow, I don’t think that’s an argument that will weigh very heavily with Sufi! 😛
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Probably not, but it seems that when Catholics engage both non-Catholics and Muslims, they ought to occasionally argue from their own playing field. It is always funny to watch skeptics vs. evangelicals on the NT. The evangelicals want to push the date of authorship as early as possible (can’t have Christians running around for long without Gospels and Epistles lest the early Christians look too Catholic) and the skeptics want to push the dates as late as possible in the silly idea that the Bible is subject to the effects of the Telephone game. :rolleyes: The evangelical camp is trying to create a solution to a problem Catholics do not have. Early date? Late date? What do we care when we have a living Church? So when the muslim engages lots of evangelicals and then tries Catholics, he may not realize it is a majorly different game.

Scott
 
Sufi said:
Lost and misinterpreted message. The word corrupted makes it seem as people intentionally added and subtracted from it. I don’t believe it was intentional.
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I hope your research will demonstrate that nothing was lost, intentionally or otherwise. The vast collection of manuscripts makes it possible to retro-fit the information, so to speak.
 
Mercy, I only see bits and pieces of yahoo images. Where are the images of whole Torah and Gospel? You said it was carefully preserved. Please don’t rush to find things. Take your time please.
 
Sufi said:
Thank you Mercy. You should teach some classes of patience, respect and manners to Flare and others. 🙂
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When is your project due and how big a job is it? Have you looked into the Dead Sea Scrolls. Most of that information will be in scholarly journals – probably accessible only through an academic library. I re-state: this is not an area in which I have great expertise. But any discussion of authentic ancient texts of the Bible MUST include a mention of the great find at Qumran.
 
Sufi said:
Mercy, I only see bits and pieces of yahoo images. Where are the images of whole Torah and Gospel?
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If you’ve seen one Torah, you’ve seen them all! (joke – but pretty much true). I have no idea where to go for pictures of that.

And the Torah is only the first five books of the Hebrew Bible. I think you’re looking for the Tanakh.

Again, try the British Museum: they might have a photgraph of the entire Codex Sinaiticus. It used to be on display in a glass case right in the middle of the gallery: AWESOME!
 
Sufi said:
Mercy, I only see bits and pieces of yahoo images. Where are the images of whole Torah and Gospel? You said it was carefully preserved. Please don’t rush to find things. Take your time please.
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I said the CONTENT of the texts was preserved. I believe some of your questions are answered in that article in the Catholic Encyclopedia. Although it is dated, it will give you some of the basic information you need to follow up through modern scholarship.

Hey! It’s one of the rules of the CA Forums that we’re not supposed to do your homework for you! 😛
 
mercygate said:
When is your project due and how big a job is it? Have you looked into the Dead Sea Scrolls. Most of that information will be in scholarly journals – probably accessible only through an academic library. I re-state: this is not an area in which I have great expertise. But any discussion of authentic ancient texts of the Bible MUST include a mention of the great find at Qumran.
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I’m doing this currently for my own studies. Youi don’t have to rush. Just keep Exoflare and InJesus away from me and everything will be ok. 🙂
 
mercygate said:
I said the CONTENT of the texts was preserved. I believe some of your questions are answered in that article in the Catholic Encyclopedia. Although it is dated, it will give you some of the basic information you need to follow up through modern scholarship.

Hey! It’s one of the rules of the CA Forums that we’re not supposed to do your homework for you! 😛
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I’m a guest. in Islam guests get treated good. I know this is the same in Christianity.🙂
 
What exactly you mean by the CONTENT? It was memorized then placed on scrolls in writting?
 
Sufi said:
british-museum.ac.uk/

Come on Mercy. Show me where to go. Also, why do they keep it there? Is there a significance of this? Is the location significant?
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I don’t know where to go for pictures. They keep it in the British Museum because the guy who found it at St. Catherine’s Monastery in Jebel Musa asked to “borrow” it and, well, it never quite made it back home.

Sufi, my Son: this is easily available information.

**By the way!!! **St. Catherine’s Monastery (which has a grant of perpetual protection written in the hand of Muhammad himself! – for real) has the second largest collection of ancient manuscripts in the world – after the Vatican. They have a grant (I forget who from) which has given them digital recording equipment to copy all of the ancient manuscripts so they can be shared by scholars everywhere without damaging the precious originals. Is that cool, or what?
 
I’m in NY I can not access the Museum. Pictures will have to do for me. I have to go now. All this is cool. I have a saying (I wasn’t there, so I’ll never know) I just live my life according to what I think is right. My beleif mybe different from yours, but one thing remains is that we all are one body. We were created from one seed, and Allah scatered the seed. So we all are brothers and sisters by human nature.

It’s Ramadaan and I have to go to the Mosque and pray and break my fast for the day. Take care Mercy and you keep cool and sweet. 🙂
 
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