Where is the religious instruction?

[Oneofthewomen]

If only it were that simple. Parish catechists do not make up their own curriculum. They have to teach from the materials the parish RE chooses, and that can be quite dicey.

I will admit that there are some questionable programs out there. If your parish is using one that you find questionable, why have you not talked to the RE coordinator or the Pastor, or even the diocese office of catechesis?

I am teaching Confirmation prep this year. What my parish deals with from parents/students is not out of the ordinary. We have kids who are never prepared & always late for class. Some of our students (all grade levels) never come to Mass. The idea that religious education classes are not needed, or that it is the job of the catechist only to teach the faith is very popular, and God forbid if you ask parents to volunteer to help during class time!

It is a very sad state of affairs when we have parents & grandparents lamenting that their children left the Church and grandbabies are not being Baptized, but the question I have is did you make your faith a part of everyday life at home? If not, what did you expect?

Catechesis starts at home and is a promise that is made by parents when they have their child Baptized. Maybe we should start catechizing the adults who are getting married a little better before we start blaming parish education programs.

 

[Della]

I will admit that there are some questionable programs out there. If your parish is using one that you find questionable, why have you not talked to the RE coordinator or the Pastor, or even the diocese office of catechesis?

I am teaching Confirmation prep this year. What my parish deals with from parents/students is not out of the ordinary. We have kids who are never prepared & always late for class. Some of our students (all grade levels) never come to Mass. The idea that religious education classes are not needed, or that it is the job of the catechist only to teach the faith is very popular, and God forbid if you ask parents to volunteer to help during class time!

It is a very sad state of affairs when we have parents & grandparents lamenting that their children left the Church and grandbabies are not being Baptized, but the question I have is did you make your faith a part of everyday life at home? If not, what did you expect?

Catechesis starts at home and is a promise that is made by parents when they have their child Baptized. Maybe we should start catechizing the adults who are getting married a little better before we start blaming parish education programs.

All true, but who writes the parish education programs? And who accepts them to be used? Not the parents.

There’s been an improvement over years in RE materials because priests and REs have seen the results of poor programs–lack of caring by parents who weren’t properly instructed in the faith during their youth–the very parents you are lamenting don’t get involved. Like I wrote in my earlier post–there are consequences to the poor catechesis of the 60’s through the 90’s and we’re seeing the fruit in the way the young people of that time are now acting as parents today. As I also wrote, it’s going to take a long time to reverse the damage done. Sadly, many of the parents might never come into full participation of their faith because of poor catechesis they received years ago.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

All of this is true, but it started somewhere. I am in my late 40’s. My parents were catechized using the Baltimore Catechism, prior to VII and had a very child-like understanding of their faith. They were not encouraged to read the Bible, so they could not encourage us. They could not explain the "whys " of anything, just that “this is what the Church says”. And I know that most of my friends had it the same way.
It also didn’t help that the whole idea of God/religion was pushed out of mainstream society.
There is plenty of blame to go around and if we want it to change, we must get involved. I have no children, so I don’t have a horse in this race, I just know what I see. Religious education, for the most part, is not seen as a necessary thing, and Sacraments are nothing more that “life events” that we do because it’s expected.

The only way to change this, IMHO, is to start with engaged couples and couples who want their children baptized. Teach them, and hold them accountable for their choices to marry in the Church or have their children Baptized.

All true, but who writes the parish education programs? And who accepts them to be used? Not the parents.

There’s been an improvement over years in RE materials because priests and REs have seen the results of poor programs–lack of caring by parents who weren’t properly instructed in the faith during their youth–the very parents you are lamenting don’t get involved. Like I wrote in my earlier post–there are consequences to the poor catechesis of the 60’s through the 90’s and we’re seeing the fruit in the way the young people of that time are now acting as parents today. As I also wrote, it’s going to take a long time to reverse the damage done. Sadly, many of the parents might never come into full participation of their faith because of poor catechesis they received years ago.

 

[Della]

All of this is true, but it started somewhere. I am in my late 40’s. My parents were catechized using the Baltimore Catechism, prior to VII and had a very child-like understanding of their faith. They were not encouraged to read the Bible, so they could not encourage us. They could not explain the "whys " of anything, just that “this is what the Church says”. And I know that most of my friends had it the same way.
It also didn’t help that the whole idea of God/religion was pushed out of mainstream society.
There is plenty of blame to go around and if we want it to change, we must get involved. I have no children, so I don’t have a horse in this race, I just know what I see. Religious education, for the most part, is not seen as a necessary thing, and Sacraments are nothing more that “life events” that we do because it’s expected.

The only way to change this, IMHO, is to start with engaged couples and couples who want their children baptized. Teach them, and hold them accountable for their choices to marry in the Church or have their children Baptized.

What you say is true. And a great recommendation re: engaged couples and couples who want their babies baptized. I’m fortunate because our current parish is very good with religious instruction for all. It wasn’t always that way. I think RE is improving, as I wrote, but we still have a long way to go, yes?

 

[kkollwitz]

If only it were that simple. Parish catechists do not make up their own curriculum. They have to teach from the materials the parish RE chooses, and that can be quite dicey.

I was not enamored of my textbook in both classes I taught (RCIA and 6th grade). In both cases I proposed my own curricula, and was allowed to use them. Basically I was able to cover the required material in my own way.

 

[Della]

I was not enamored of my textbook in both classes I taught (RCIA and 6th grade). In both cases I proposed my own curricula, and was allowed to use them. Basically I was able to cover the required material in my own way.

It’s great if your parish will let you modify the curriculum–not all will.

 

[kkollwitz]

It’s great if your parish will let you modify the curriculum–not all will.

I didn’t know until I tried. Two parishes, and I was probably the first person ever in either one to propose by own shtick. And it was not as though I wouldn’t teach if I couldn’t do it 100% my way.

 

[kkollwitz]

“Parish catechists do not make up their own curriculum.”

No, they don’t, and wouldn’t dream of it. Most catechists are parents of kids in the program- not the same folks as the “faithful and knowledgeable Catholics” I want to see doing the job, and who may treat it as a vocation.

 

[Della]

I didn’t know until I tried. Two parishes, and I was probably the first person ever in either one to propose by own shtick. And it was not as though I wouldn’t teach if I couldn’t do it 100% my way.

I taught CCD one year and had to scrap almost everything they gave me because it said nothing useful and what it did say was nonsense, so I’m been there/done that, too. :tiphat: It shouldn’t be necessary, should it? The local parish ought to be teaching what kids need to know to be faithful, knowledgeable Catholics. Sadly, too many didn’t/haven’t/still don’t.

 

[Mammoths]

It is the responsibility of every member of the body to fulfill their role in equipping the saints. That means regardless of He materials available at one’s parish, the parents are still responsible for teaching their children about God and His ways. If the childhood catechism classes seem thin on content that does not prevent parents from doing their part.

Dueteronemy 6:6-9

6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

 

[Della]

It is the responsibility of every member of the body to fulfill their role in equipping the saints. That means regardless of He materials available at one’s parish, the parents are still responsible for teaching their children about God and His ways. If the childhood catechism classes seem thin on content that does not prevent parents from doing their part.

Dueteronemy 6:6-9

6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

Indeed, it starts at home. Of course, the parish should be doing its part too, especially for kids whose parents aren’t involved/whose faith isn’t up to teaching their kids. I think that sort of balance is a given.

The problem is that for too long almost no one was teaching the laity anything useful, just to love one another and be nice. And while that’s not a bad message, it certainly isn’t all we need to know and love God as he deserves to be known and loved or to be faithful to his Church.

So, moving on from what has been a disastrous mess regarding teaching the people the faith, let us now do our part to see that they get the proper instruction from here on out, at home, in the parish, and in our Catholic schools, yes?

 

[Mammoths]

Indeed, it starts at home. Of course, the parish should be doing its part too, especially for kids whose parents aren’t involved/whose faith isn’t up to teaching their kids. I think that sort of balance is a given.

The problem is that for too long almost no one was teaching the laity anything useful, just to love one another and be nice. And while that’s not a bad message, it certainly isn’t all we need to know and love God as he deserves to be known and loved or to be faithful to his Church.

So, moving on from what has been a disastrous mess regarding teaching the people the faith, let us now do our part to see that they get the proper instruction from here on out, at home, in the parish, and in our Catholic schools, yes?

Yes yes yes . I really don’t know what the catholic experience is like but as I said above, the concern about proper formation of a Christian identity in youngsters is familiar. As a former youth pastor I’ve definitely experienced some forehead smacking moments. I’ve only been to mass twice in my life. My comments about parental responsibility are based on the posts in the thread. I can say I was shocked how much scripture there was those two
masses I attended. I hope to go again when I get a chance. Most of the Catholics I had ever met couldn’t carry on a conversation with scripture as the center piece of reference. Two popular myths about Catholicism among evangelicals is that the Catholic Church has a compremising view of scripture, and the Catholic Church does not promote a relationship with God. The biggest evidence for these myths is coming from cultural contact between Catholics and protestants. My point isn’t to make this an apologetics discussion, but if catholic preachers are biting their tongues to avoid affending the parish, we should encourage them to preach boldly without compromise the apostles teaching. People who want to walk with God should find Him in His church in preaching as well–the liturgy of the word. I believe there can be a movement to solid teaching and preaching. I also think that a preacher can be encouraged by the laity–not by criticizing him all the time but by showing an interest in solid food so to speak. Be appreciative, and supportive–but not a ‘blind yes.’ (Deal with authority humbly) As parents, reaching our children for Christ will influence their world. For example, his questions might encourage the confirmation class teacher to be more direct and thorough. Some day it will be our kids leading the church. If we instill a love for sacred teaching they will operate in that love–loving God with their mind. One hand washes the other. The catechism teaches that the whole church cannot error where unanimity exists among the laity, and the magisterium. We all have a responsibility in preserving the apostles teaching. So yes we encourage our parish to use a solid curriculum and we encourage our kids to love the word.

 

[InOmnemTerram]

I will admit that there are some questionable programs out there. If your parish is using one that you find questionable, why have you not talked to the RE coordinator or the Pastor, or even the diocese office of catechesis?

Or simply find another parish, if possible.

 

[Mammoths]

From the op:
“Let me now deliver my prognosis as bluntly as I can. All the CCD classes in the world cannot make up for this loss. If your imagination is formed by mass entertainment – if you are more familiar with Mr. Spock than with Abraham and Moses, if you can sing the sick doggerel of a song by Madonna but cannot hear the words of Jesus telling us about the lilies of the field – then you are like a pagan who has recently been baptized but who still has only the vaguest sense of what it means to be a Christian.”

Are CCD classes a survey of the main points of Catholicism? The op seems to be advocation an education of the imagination. To have in ones minds eye the events of Christian heritage is much more. Let me demonstrate with a story.

Last summer my four year old came to work with me for a month. When we were at a truck stop, he picked up a gospel tract that had some Christian symbols on it and stated, “this book is about Jesus.” Later that day he fell asleep in the car seat. As we were passing through the Oregon high desert, he suddenly woke up sobbing. You know how kids get when they cry so hard they can hardly breath. I stopped and held him for a bit. Finally I buckled him in the sleeper and said he needed to rest until he felt better. (Semis have a bed designed to alow one person to sleep while the other drives. Also we can see each other so he is not unsupervised.) After he calmed down I brought him back up front and asked him what was bothering him. Pointing at a rocky desert mountain he said, “People were killing Jesus on that hill!” It was then I remembered that the date was Good Friday! I had known, butI was distracted with work–the life of a driver. We talked about the crucifixion and I explained that Jesus would rise on Sunday. Then on Sunday I reminded him, “Today is Easter Sunday, the day Jesus rose from the dead. He is alive and willl never die again.”

 

[TCEL]

Esolen’s point about baptizing the imagination is a huge factor in our consideration of homeschooling. In all my K-12 Catholic schooling, Narnia, Tolkien, Chesterton, and any of that ilk were not required reading, or even strongly suggested. I read Narnia at the suggestion of my Mom, and discovered Chesterton and Lewis right before I left for college, which is almost too late. The battle is over the imagination. Christianity needs to be seen as something we can give ourselves to, that it is the ultimate adventure because it’s true. Thank God I had a high-school teacher who was passionate about faith, and gave us some basic apologetics. I would have been woefully unequipped. Don’t forget sexual ethics. College is not the best time to leave kids to figure out the truth of the Church’s teaching on contraception, because most will never hear it. Or philosophy. We need to learn the history of philosophy. That was one of the most enlightening things I ever did that made sense of the world. I had to learn a lot of this on my own at a secular college. It was graced, because there’s no natural way it would have landed on my lap.

 

[kkollwitz]

My mission statement:

Every 6th-grader on the planet should be in my Wednesday Night Catechism: Catholic, Christian, Cossack, Cathar, I don’t care. I don’t care if the parents won’t make cookies, are bad Catholics, non-Catholics, Atheists, the Worst Scum of the Universe, or the Antichrist. I don’t care if they ever go to Mass, or Confession, or if they Live in Sin. I don’t want any parent anywhere who could bring their child to my class to have a single reason not to do so.

To the Parents of the 6th-Graders of the World: just bring ya kid t’class. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

 

[Mammoths]

My mission statement:

Every 6th-grader on the planet should be in my Wednesday Night Catechism: Catholic, Christian, Cossack, Cathar, I don’t care. I don’t care if the parents won’t make cookies, are bad Catholics, non-Catholics, Atheists, the Worst Scum of the Universe, or the Antichrist. I don’t care if they ever go to Mass, or Confession, or if they Live in Sin. I don’t want any parent anywhere who could bring their child to my class to have a single reason not to do so.

To the Parents of the 6th-Graders of the World: just bring ya kid t’class. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Looks like it might be a good book. I noticed the disclaimer that it is not eligible for catechetical review. Following the link I don’t see why not? Can you clarify?

 

[kkollwitz]

Looks like it might be a good book. I noticed the disclaimer that it is not eligible for catechetical review. Following the link I don’t see why not? Can you clarify?

At the link below see pages 2 and 3, items 1 and 3. My book is not for students, nor is it an accessory to a particular curriculum. I was flatly refused a catechetical review, which is fine with me. An imprimatur (which my book has) is as much Church approval as my kind of book can get.

usccb.org/upload/conformity-catechetical-materials-catechism-catholic-church.pdf

1st chapter is a free download. If you like it, you’ll like the book; if not, you won’t!

box.com/s/b00828b9533ed8e84806

 

[Mammoths]

Thank you. I did read the first chapter and it looks very useful. It seems to be a study in presentation to the age group not just a list of points. I might get it as a tool for myself. Who knows, maybe I will be a catholic in a year after reading it.