Where is this taught in the bible?

[wmscott]

Please remind me of the question you asked (I might have missed it) and the supposed name calling and spewing of misinformation?

Page 3

Post 38 – I asked you questions that went unanswered
Post 42 – I asked you questions that went unanswered

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Post 46 - Did not answer my question again but dodged it, made false assertions, generalities made about Catholics who separate themselves from Church teachings and appear to paint them as if they are the ones teaching on matters of faith and morals. And if you are up on current events Catholics cannot vote for political candidates who support a right to abortion, said Cardinal-designate Raymond Burke, head of the highest court at the Vatican and the archbishop emeritus of St. Louis, Missouri. And this is only one of the five non negotiable he addressed. The Catholics you cite are wrong and are not true to their faith, plain and simple. Calling me hypocritical when asking you a question related to this thread topic instead of answering it. This looks like you are dodging and just trying to put your agenda forth.

Post 54 – I asked you questions that went unanswered

 

[Dokimas]

he church is made up of all true believers in Jesus as God/Savior. It is not, IMO, one of the named churches we see and that includes the Catholic Church. The church Jesus founded is universal in that includes all who believe not matter how old, what color the skin, what sin is in the past, etc.

Are non-believers going to be in Heaven?

The Bible says God paid for His church with His Blood.

Paul called God Savior and Jesus Savior 3 times each in Titus alone.

The Word ‘universal’ or ‘catholic’ was not used as a noun at least during the 1st century. I’m sure you could tell me when it was used as the actual name of your church. This means the church Jesus founded was not THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. It didn’t have a name like that. It is know as the Body of Christ.

The Bible tells us that WHO-SO-EVER calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[adrift]

Are non-believers going to be in Heaven?

The Bible says God paid for His church with His Blood.

Paul called God Savior and Jesus Savior 3 times each in Titus alone.

The Word ‘universal’ or ‘catholic’ was not used as a noun at least during the 1st century. I’m sure you could tell me when it was used as the actual name of your church. This means the church Jesus founded was not THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. It didn’t have a name like that. It is know as the Body of Christ.

The Bible tells us that WHO-SO-EVER calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

What means it is not the Catholic Church? I asked for you to show me the Church from the time of Jesus until now. Saying it is believers is a non answer. The Catholic Church can be shown to have existed from Pentecost.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Are non-believers going to be in Heaven?

The Bible says God paid for His church with His Blood.

Paul called God Savior and Jesus Savior 3 times each in Titus alone.

The Word ‘universal’ or ‘catholic’ was not used as a noun at least during the 1st century. I’m sure you could tell me when it was used as the actual name of your church. This means the church Jesus founded was not THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. It didn’t have a name like that. It is know as the Body of Christ.

The Bible tells us that WHO-SO-EVER calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Did not Christ say not all those that cry LORD LORD will be saved?

 

[steve_b]

Where did I say the RCC manipulated primary sources? Steve b manipulated the quote he posted from Irenaeus (Schaff translation) and that was demonstrated in the discussion. It’s a common practice among Catholic apologists; references are either stripped of context, tampered with, or both.

What did I manipulate?Be specific

 

[Dokimas]

What means it is not the Catholic Church? I asked for you to show me the Church from the time of Jesus until now. Saying it is believers is a non answer. The Catholic Church can be shown to have existed from Pentecost.

Please show me documentation the shows the church of the first century being called The Catholic Church.

The first century church was called Christian.

It was called the Way.

It was called the Body of Christ.

It was made up of ALL TRUE believers.

 

[Dokimas]

Did not Christ say not all those that cry LORD LORD will be saved?

Yes He did.

Do we have a contradiction? NO!!!

There must be a difference between saying Lord Lord and calling upon His Name.

One is ‘lip service’ the other is from the heart. Big difference!!!

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Please show me documentation the shows the church of the first century being called The Catholic Church.

The first century church was called Christian.

It was called the Way.

It was called the Body of Christ.

It was made up of ALL TRUE believers.

Very true, it was not till the 2nd century that the Way, Body of Chirst was called Catholic.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Yes He did.

Do we have a contradiction? NO!!!

There must be a difference between saying Lord Lord and calling upon His Name.

One is ‘lip service’ the other is from the heart. Big difference!!!

Or maybe, just maybe there is more than just saying it that is involved? Maybe there are things that need to be done as well?

Lets see what else did Christ say needs to be done.

Jesus said, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you” (John 6:53).

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned
Mark 16:16

So now we have at least 4 things:

1)We must call on the Lord
2)We must eat his Flesh and drink his Blood
3) We must believe.
4) We must be Baptized.

YOur right I do not see a contridiction just the Lord says there is more to it.

 

[adrift]

What means it is not the Catholic Church? I asked for you to show me the Church from the time of Jesus until now. Saying it is believers is a non answer. The Catholic Church can be shown to have existed from Pentecost.

Please show me documentation the shows the church of the first century being called The Catholic Church.

The first century church was called Christian.

It was called the Way.

It was called the Body of Christ.

It was made up of ALL TRUE believers.

Very true, it was not till the 2nd century that the Way, Body of Chirst was called Catholic.

What I say and so does history is that those Christians later were called Catholic. You avoided the question of what is the history of what you claim. Demonstrate that they were not the Catholic Church.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

What I say and so does history is that those Christians later were called Catholic. You avoided the question of what is the history of what you claim. Demonstrate that they were not the Catholic Church.

I am not dening that I was say that the word catholic just was not used till the 2nd century.

 

[Dokimas]

What I say and so does history is that those Christians later were called Catholic. You avoided the question of what is the history of what you claim. Demonstrate that they were not the Catholic Church.

Does history say that after a time ALL Christians were part of the CC? I mean from the point of time that there was a church know as the CC.

We have no disagreement that the church of Jesus is universal.

 

[steve_b]

Very true, it was not till the 2nd century that the Way, Body of Chirst was called Catholic.

Just a comment, attempting to put some dates and events together. All predicated of course, on the accuracy of timelines that are out there and available to use…

Ignatius of Antioch according to some timelines was born ~50 a.d., and have him as bishop from ~69 a.d. forward. Date of death is a fairly wide range of dates. He wrote that the Church is called the Catholic Church ~ 107 (letter to Smyrna). Some timelines have him dieing ~98 a.d. So the question is, when did he start using the name “Catholic Church”?

He wrote 6 letters at the end of his life, on his way to be martyred, in which he uses the name Catholic Church. So was he using this name during his bishopric or only on his way to be martyred? I haven’t found ANYONE and I’ve asked for evidence from anyone

• that the name “Catholic Church” caused any stir with any of the ECF’s in writing, after Ignatius used the name in writing… Did Ignatius coin the name “Catholic Church” or was it already in use when he wrote?.
• he is a bishop directly taught by apostles and he was a disciple of John. If the date is correct for his ordination, he was made bishop of Antioch ~2 yrs after Peter and Paul are martyred in Rome. St John dies ~100 a.d… If dates are correct, Ignatius then, has been a disciple of John for ~24 - 30 years. Therefore, It’s probably safe to say, the name “Catholic Church” is already the name in common usage in the 1st century.

Just a thought.

 

[pablope]

Yes He did.

Do we have a contradiction? NO!!!

There must be a difference between saying Lord Lord and calling upon His Name.

One is ‘lip service’ the other is from the heart. Big difference!!!

Yes there is.

Matthew 7:21-23 (King James Version)

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

From this passage, lip service will not get one to heaven.

 

[Nicea325]

Where did I say the RCC manipulated primary sources? Steve b manipulated the quote he posted from Irenaeus (Schaff translation) and that was demonstrated in the discussion. It’s a common practice among Catholic apologists; references are either stripped of context, tampered with, or both.

Listen to what you wrote? You are asking and yet at the same you answered it yourself. It is common practice among Catholic apologists? So indeed you are accusing us of manipulating them,so PROVE IT? Show me the evidence Brian?

And no! It is very common HABITS of non-Catholics as yourself to take the works or specific passages from the ECF out- of -context. The early church fathers WERE NOT PROTESTANTS…first accept that FACT! Non-Catholics will go to great extremes to defend their massive divisions.

 

[adrift]

Does history say that after a time ALL Christians were part of the CC? I mean from the point of time that there was a church know as the CC.

We have no disagreement that the church of Jesus is universal.

History records that there was one Church that schisimed. That had the Protestant reformation. Your phrasing is odd. The Crhistian Church is the Catholic church… I have attempted to answer your questions BUT all you do is ask additional questions without answering mine. Where are the people that you claim were the Church?l You have mentioned the Christians what happened to them. Give me a timeline.

 

[Dokimas]

Yes there is.

Matthew 7:21-23 (King James Version)

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

From this passage, lip service will not get one to heaven.

Thank you for clarifying the point I was making.

 

[Dokimas]

History records that there was one Church that schisimed. That had the Protestant reformation. Your phrasing is odd. The Crhistian Church is the Catholic church… I have attempted to answer your questions BUT all you do is ask additional questions without answering mine. Where are the people that you claim were the Church?l You have mentioned the Christians what happened to them. Give me a timeline.

Are you saying that those children of God who are protestants are not part of the church Jesus was speaking about?

Is the CC the ONLY Christian church?

The people that were the church are in there grave waiting to be raised to be with Jesus for eternity or they are already in Heaven. I’m sure they don’t care as long as the spend eternity with Him.

There’s always been Christians since Act 1. Some ended up in the CC and many in other churches as it is now.

I have no clue what kind of timeline you are asking for.

 

[Nicea325]

Originally Posted by Brian Culliton
Where did I say the RCC manipulated primary sources? Steve b manipulated the quote he posted from Irenaeus (Schaff translation) and that was demonstrated in the discussion. It’s a common practice among Catholic apologists; references are either stripped of context, tampered with, or both.

Ahhh no Brian. The issue here is your remark,so do not go off on a tangent. Sorry,but Steve B actually showed the opposite. Now back to your remark,you just included in your response. Here let me point it out to you in your own words:

Catholic apologists; references are either stripped of context, tampered with, or both

Therefore Brian,show me your empirical evidence Catholics have tampered with primary sources? I do recall learning a great deal about primary sources as a graduate student,so I want you to provide the evidence against us Catholics tampering with primary sources.

Please no more dodging and denials.

 

[joe370]

Dok you said:

The Word ‘universal’ or ‘catholic’ was not used as a noun at least during the 1st century. I’m sure you could tell me when it was used as the actual name of your church. This means the church Jesus founded was not THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. It didn’t have a name like that. It is know as the Body of Christ.

1. The first extant reference to the “Catholic Church” occurs in a letter written by Ignatius of Antioch. In his Letter to the Smyrnaeans, written in 107 AD we find the following statement: “Wherever the bishop is, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” This statement is interesting for several reasons. One reason is that the name “Catholic” used to designate Jesus’ Church was not something new.Ignatius felt no need to explain or defend the name. This points to an earlier year for the beginning of the name Catholic. It is not a stretch to posit the beginning of the name “Catholic” to the first century. Another reason that this statement is interesting is that the man that first wrote that the Church was called “Catholic” was from Antioch. It was also in Antioch that the followers of Jesus were first called “Christians” (see Acts 11:26). One other reason that this statement from Ignatius is interesting is that Jesus and the Catholic Church are united as one. “Wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” In other words, Jesus is always found with the Catholic Church. This fulfills the words of our Lord, “Behold, I am with you always even until the end of the world!” (Matthew 28:20)
2. You said:

The church Jesus founded was not THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

Okay…The church Jesus founded was not any of the protestant churches either; they all stem from the 16th century reformation at best. So, where is the church, today, founded by Jesus? Remember, you said it was not the Catholic church.

Are you saying that those children of God who are protestants are not part of the church Jesus was speaking about?

Men broke away from the Catholic church and founded new churches. Agreed? Eventually people were born and raised in these new churches and through no fault of there own, simply do not belong to the CC founded by Jesus, again, through no fault of their own, which means that they truly are a part of the Mystical body of Christ of which Jesus is the head and savior. Now, do they belong to the one historical church founded by Jesus circa AD 33? Well, if I can provide the name of the person that founded each respective non-Catholic church and when, and that person’s name is not Jesus and the time is not the 1st century, then logically, no. If I started a home improvement store and 50 years later a disgruntled employee leaves the home improvement store that I started, and starts his own home improvement store, does he still belong to the home improvement store that I started 50 years ago?

Is the CC the ONLY Christian church?

No! There are hundreds…

The people that were the church are in there grave waiting to be raised to be with Jesus for eternity or they are already in Heaven. I’m sure they don’t care as long as the spend eternity with Him.

But their spirit cannot die so their spirit is with God right now waiting for their glorified bodies - right?

There’s always been Christians since Act 1. Some ended up in the CC and many in other churches as it is now.

For 1000 years all Christians belonged to the one CC; for the next 500 years, Christians either belonged to the EOC or the CC; for the next 500 years, well, you know the rest…