Where is this taught in the bible?

[joe370]

Based on my last thread regarding the non-Catholic consensus of what sola scriptura is, and is not, I have concluded that the bible, as per sola scriptura advocates, is the Christians only source of divine authority, and that all Christians, as per the practice of sola scriptura, must defer to the authority of the bible alone, (with the exception of one SS advocate) - as opposed to deferring to the authority of the Catholic Church or any other Protestant Church for that matter. I am told that All have the right to read the bible (with which I agree, to a point…) - as it has been written, and discern truth for themselves: no church Bishop or Pastor (regardless of church affiliation) - is needed to further expound that which has been expounded by the Spirit of Christ in the Prophets and the Apostles.

Where is this taught in the bible??? 2 Timothy 3 does not teach this…

 

[pablope]

Based on my last thread regarding the non-Catholic consensus of what sola scriptura is, and is not, I have concluded that the bible, as per sola … I am told that All have the right to read the bible (with which I agree, to a point…) - as it has been written, and discern truth for themselves: no church Bishop or Pastor (regardless of church affiliation) - is needed to further expound that which has been expounded by the Spirit of Christ in the Prophets and the Apostles.

Where is this taught in the bible??? 2 Timothy 3 does not teach this…

To make things simpler…please answer this question without referring to the anything…answer this with the first thing that comes to your mind…

What is bulwark and pillar of Truth?

 

[joe370]

pablope;7192364]To make things simpler…please answer this question without referring to the anything…answer this with the first thing that comes to your mind…

What is bulwark and pillar of Truth?/]

The Catholic church founded by God… I am just trying to understand the protestant perspective, (my former protestant perspective) - which makes no sense to me - now…

 

[pablope]

The Catholic church founded by God… I am just trying to understand the protestant perspective, (my former protestant perspective) - which makes no sense to me - now…

Joe…good answer…so now the next question: **Where is this in the Bible?
**

Well, you cannot make sense with something that does not have sense…that does not have a firm foundation to derive from.

 

[Brian_Culliton]

To make things simpler…please answer this question without referring to the anything…answer this with the first thing that comes to your mind…

What is bulwark and pillar of Truth?

Answer: The church.

“But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” (1Tim. 3:15)

My question: What is the pillar and ground of the Church?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Answer: The church.

“But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” (1Tim. 3:15)

My question: What is the pillar and ground of the Church?

The Authorty Christ gave the Apostle that have been passed on from them tho the bishops to present day.

We must keep in mind there were things that christ spoke to all that things that he spoke only to the 12. That the 12 passed on the authority to other select not to all.

 

[theoldman]

To make things simpler…please answer this question without referring to the anything…answer this with the first thing that comes to your mind…

What is bulwark and pillar of Truth?

the Bible, of Course, unless that is. you can jump on your little old space ship, and fly right up to heaven and talk directly to God

 

[theoldman]

The Catholic church founded by God… I am just trying to understand the protestant perspective, (my former protestant perspective) - which makes no sense to me - now…

Oh !!! sorry you lost your senses!

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

the Bible, of Course, unless that is. you can jump on your little old space ship, and fly right up to heaven and talk directly to God

But the Bible says that it is the church that is the bulwark and pillar of Truth. So do I belive you or the Bible?

 

[JonNC]

Oh !!! sorry you lost your senses!

I don’t know if you meant this as humor, but if so, I don’t see the humor in it.

It is comments like these that seem to continue to drive wedges between us, and I frankly see no charity in them.

Joe and I don’t always agree, but he seems to me to be one of the most sensible people here.

Jon

 

[ConstantineTG]

the Bible, of Course, unless that is. you can jump on your little old space ship, and fly right up to heaven and talk directly to God

which came first, the Church or the bible?

 

[Rightlydivide]

Joe,
There are two factors at play here I believe.

One is the desire to understand your former perspective.
I believe that I understand many perspectives. As a former atheist, I certainly understand that perspective.
I also believe that I understand the Catholic perspective. In fact, outside of a few groups, I believe that I understand the perspective of most groups. I admit that a lack of familiarity with basic terminology and frameworks do make some religions (Scientology comes to mind) difficult to understand. Certainly Catholicism and Protestantism share enough basic presuppositions that understanding each other is more likely than two groups who share radically different views of major issues (God, existence, evil, etc).

The other is that it is possible to understand a perspective but disagree with it based upon differing presuppositions. In other words, while you might not agree with Sola Scriptura, that is not the same thing as not “understanding” it.

Would you agree this is true or not?
RD

Yes, I am happy to briefly answer this question however I think it is important to examine this first.

 

[joe370]

Hey Rightlydivide, I agree with you; it is possible to understand a perspective but disagree with it based upon differing presuppositions. What was your answer to my OP???

Where is this taught in the bible?

Joe,
There are two factors at play here I believe.

One is the desire to understand your former perspective.
I believe that I understand many perspectives. As a former atheist, I certainly understand that perspective.
I also believe that I understand the Catholic perspective. In fact, outside of a few groups, I believe that I understand the perspective of most groups. I admit that a lack of familiarity with basic terminology and frameworks do make some religions (Scientology comes to mind) difficult to understand. Certainly Catholicism and Protestantism share enough basic presuppositions that understanding each other is more likely than two groups who share radically different views of major issues (God, existence, evil, etc).

The other is that it is possible to understand a perspective but disagree with it based upon differing presuppositions. In other words, while you might not agree with Sola Scriptura, that is not the same thing as not “understanding” it.

Would you agree this is true or not?
RD

Yes, I am happy to briefly answer this question however I think it is important to examine this first.

 

[joe370]

Which one Brian? Is the church to which my sister belongs, the church to which you belong, the church to which my niece belongs or the to which I belong??? These are all different churches, as you know.

What was your answer to the OP?

Answer: The church.

“But if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” (1Tim. 3:15)

My question: What is the pillar and ground of the Church?

 

[Rightlydivide]

Joe
So do you disagree or not understand?

And I am working on your answer in as succinct manner as possible

 

[Rightlydivide]

Let me ask a question based upon the question about which church is the pillar.
Lets go to what the Bible teaches about various churches.

We agree that the last book of the Bible has John writing to seven churches in Asia Rev 1:4

John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come

John writes this to the church at Ephesus

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
[6] But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

What about Thyataria

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
[21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

So were these churches the pillar and ground of truth as well? How did people in these particular congregations determine if they were in a church teaching error?

 

[joe370]

Hey RD…

=Rightlydivide;7193669]Joe,
There are two factors at play here I believe.

One is the desire to understand your former perspective.
I believe that I understand many perspectives. As a former atheist, I certainly understand that perspective.
I also believe that I understand the Catholic perspective.

2 different perspectives…My former perspective never really made any sense to me.

Certainly Catholicism and Protestantism share enough basic presuppositions that understanding each other is more likely than two groups who share radically different views of major issues (God, existence, evil, etc).

Agreed.

The other is that it is possible to understand a perspective but disagree with it based upon differing presuppositions.

Agreed.

In other words, while you might not agree with Sola Scriptura, that is not the same thing as not “understanding” it.

Well, I believe their are 2 conflicting interpretations od sola scriptura and I do not agree that each person has the final authority to interpret the bible. The bible disagrees with that notion as does history. The bible is the divine word of God and the authority to interpret the bible was entrusted to the church by Jesus, and today, each person has to decide which church is the right church to hang their hat.

Would you agree this is true or not?
RD

Yes, I am happy to briefly answer this question however I think it is important to examine this first.

Absolutely RD…

 

[joe370]

=Rightlydivide;7194302]Let me ask a question based upon the question about which church is the pillar.
Lets go to what the Bible teaches about various churches.

We agree that the last book of the Bible has John writing to seven churches in Asia Rev 1:4

Yup…

John writes this to the church at Ephesus

What about Thyataria

So were these churches the pillar and ground of truth as well? How did people in these particular congregations determine if they were in a church teaching error?

There was only one catholic church at this point in history, (as opposed to both catholic and protestant churches) - in different parts of the world, just as there is only one catholic church today, in different parts of the world, along with PC’s.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Let me ask a question based upon the question about which church is the pillar.
Lets go to what the Bible teaches about various churches.

We agree that the last book of the Bible has John writing to seven churches in Asia Rev 1:4

John writes this to the church at Ephesus

What about Thyataria

So were these churches the pillar and ground of truth as well? How did people in these particular congregations determine if they were in a church teaching error?

The answer is they are all One Church, But 7 seperate churches. Today it would be said To the Diocesse or possible Parish of/in these cities.

To the Diocese of Ephesus or To the Parish is Ephesus. All under a Bishop in union with one anther and with Rome.

 

[pablope]

The answer is they are all One Church, But 7 seperate churches. Today it would be said To the Diocesse or possible Parish of/in these cities.

To the Diocese of Ephesus or To the Parish is Ephesus. All under a Bishop in union with one anther and with Rome.

Agreed…the one holy and apostolic Church…that can trace its roots to Christ’s Apostles. What church can trace their origin from the Apostles…the Catholic Church.