Where no tabernalce is present

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TobyLue

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What would your reply be to this situation:
In many churchs where the tabernacle is hidden somewhere in the building and there is none in the main church, there is usually all sorts of commotions going on before mass begins. Kids running around, people laughing, talking loudly, joking around. In other words just like a big carnival. When one of the deacons was confronted as to why no reverence nor silence so that people coming in can kneel and pray, the reply was “It is perfectly OK for people to talk, laugh and have kids run around because we dont have the tabernacle present”…

Shouldnt there still be reverence since it SHOULD be a holy place?

You replies please.

Thanks…
 
I was surprised to enter a church like that recently for a funeral. I asked the guy next to me if he could find the tabernacle and he couldn’t. I hadn’t genuflected on the way in because I didn’t know where to direct it.

Then I found it in a side chapel, not in the main church. The one priest (there were two), had to open a door with chalice in hand and go to the chapel near the end of mass to finish up. Seems silly.

I have heard that in some places newer churches built will be required to have the tabernacle not only in the main church, but up on the altar.

I’ve also heard that here in Detroit, the Archdiocese is supposedly requiring kneelers in the newer parishes being built.

:amen:
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
I was surprised to enter a church like that recently for a funeral. I asked the guy next to me if he could find the tabernacle and he couldn’t. I hadn’t genuflected on the way in because I didn’t know where to direct it.

Then I found it in a side chapel, not in the main church. The one priest (there were two), had to open a door with chalice in hand and go to the chapel near the end of mass to finish up. Seems silly.

I have heard that in some places newer churches built will be required to have the tabernacle not only in the main church, but up on the altar.

I’ve also heard that here in Detroit, the Archdiocese is supposedly requiring kneelers in the newer parishes being built.

:amen:
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Do you know if this is really true? It is documented anywhere? We’re working on plans for a new church and I’d love to be able to show our priest some church documentation on this ‘requirement’, or ‘requirement in the works’. Thank you!
 
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Elzee:
Do you know if this is really true? It is documented anywhere? We’re working on plans for a new church and I’d love to be able to show our priest some church documentation on this ‘requirement’, or ‘requirement in the works’. Thank you!
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Wow, not sure where to find it. I had heard this from an uncle and don’t know if it is true, or limited to the Archdiocese of Detroit or not. Maybe someone else knows???
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
I have heard that in some places newer churches built will be required to have the tabernacle not only in the main church, but up on the altar.

I’ve also heard that here in Detroit, the Archdiocese is supposedly requiring kneelers in the newer parishes being built.

:amen:
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Wow!!! I’m almost misty eyed thinking that this might be true. Oh say it is, say it is!!!
 
I found this on another site a few minutes ago–it seems to fit here.

**How to make the Catholic Church look like other churches.
**
Code: 
 ***In order to make the Catholic Church look like other  Churches, you have to:***
Take away the Tabernacle which houses the Divine Presence of GOD.

Take away the Altar upon which the Priest calls upon the Holy Spirit to change the bread and wine into the True Presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.
The Holy Sacrifice then ceases to exist.

Take away the Sacristy Lamp which signifies the Divine Presence of GOD.

Take away the Crucifix which reminds us of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross, which is the source, center, and summit of the Mass.
And you end up with nothing more than a meeting hall.
Catholics have one of those too, but it is a separate building.
 
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SnorterLuster:
And you end up with nothing more than a meeting hall.
Catholics have one of those too, but it is a separate building.
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Sadly, too often they have two of those: the multipurpose building and the multipurpose sanctuary.

Ever notice how the “altar” in some churches looks like an ironing board while the “old” altar behind it is a magnificent marble work of art. I always wonder what kind of brainwashing they had to do to convince people this was an improvement.
 
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SnorterLuster:
I
Take away the Sacristy Lamp which signifies the Divine Presence of GOD.
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Ahhh, yes, this was the clue for me. I kept looking for the lamp and when I couldn’t find one, figured there was no sense genuflecting.

It was like, what’d they do with the tabernacle?
 
Let me see how my local parish shapes up:

Tabernacle Present in the Sanctuary - Check

Altar - I’m fairly certain that it’s wooden - not a beautiful stone altar.

Sacristy Lamp - Check

Crucifix directly behind altar - Check

Our parish in Torbay is doing pretty good. We’ve god some beautiful statues all over the church as well. We’ve got Saint Joseph, Saint Francis, Saint Therese or Lisieux, Saint Patrick, Two Statues of the Blessed Virgin, and a wonderful statue of Christ. We also have the stations right around the whole church. These are from the original church (the new one is about 15 years old now).

We’ve also got a prayer garden which is being renovated. It looks like they are putting in a little arched structure for the statue of the blessed virgin. There is another set of stations there as well that are even older and another statue of Christ.

We also have kneelers which practically everyone uses when first entering the church and after communion.

I really like our parish and I’m very lucky to have such a wonderful priest who really believes in everything he should. He’s also a great singer and he sang a wonderful latin hymn to the holy spirit during the conclave.
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
Wow, not sure where to find it. I had heard this from an uncle and don’t know if it is true, or limited to the Archdiocese of Detroit or not. Maybe someone else knows???
Click to expand...
I was under the impression that the USCCB was requiring kneelers to be built in new parishes.

You could always grab a copy of Michael S. Rose’s Guilty as Sin. Tell your priest what you DON’T want!
 
I attended Mass in a new, “modern” church once – no kneelers, no visible tabernacle, no visible altar (the “altar” turned out to be an itty bitty little table off to the side of the… um, “stage” – can’t think what else to call it), no stained glass (large, commercial-building style plate glass windows), no statues, no stations of the cross, no crucifix (I’m not even sure there was a cross) – but the atmosphere before the start of Mass was completely silent and reverent, so I’m not sure these two situations are related.
Crazy Internet Junkie Society
****Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag
 
There is no tabernacle in the church because the people in that parish despise and hold in great contempt the very Person of Jesus Christ, Himself.
 
I attend Mass on a Military base. We do some of the strangest stuff with our sacramentals.

First off, no tabernacle in the chapel. Two reasons, We Catholics would not tolerate placing Jesus in a common room. Also, the other people who use the room would rather we not put him there either. We have a Blessed Sacrament Chapel where the Tabernacle is. This is a holy room used very much like a side chapel anywhere else. We are very protective of this sacred space.

Second, we have a large crucifix mounted on the wall. When we use the common area it is on display. When the Protestants use the area the crucifix is hidden and a plain cross is displayed. (We use the empty cross during the Easer season). When neither are required both are hidden behind a curtain.

Third, we have two nice statues on display during Mass, one of the Blessed Virgin and one of St. Joseph. When anybody else uses the room the statues are hidden behind doors.

Fourth, the alter is an unadorned large wooden table with a white cloth covering. We place the Book of the Gospels on it during the Liturgy of the Word, except of course when our Deacon or Priest is reading from it. The Alter serves our Priest during the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

We have and ambo. We have kneelers. We have a presiders Chair behind the Alter. We display 8 color banners (4 on each side of the chapel down the side aisles) to mark the season of the liturgical year. We have stations of the cross displayed on the wall. (The stations are removed when necessary.) We have a nice big font for Holy water that gets closed up and placed aside when not in use.

You get the point. Hardly ideal, but functional.

With all this said, we have one of the strongest parish communities I have experienced. It is a great place to celebrate Christ’s Sacrifice. The people care for each other and participate in Parish life.

Unfortunately, we are losing our priest do to the priest shortage. I think we will find one to serve us. If not I guess my family will be relegated to the back pews in one of the local parishes. Should that happen I’ll miss my old Church.

Christ’s Peace,
 
Regarding the requirement for kneelers. The USCCB web site has info on Church buildings.
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
I’ve also heard that here in Detroit, the Archdiocese is supposedly requiring kneelers in the newer parishes being built.
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I was told this very thing by the head of the Archdiocese of Detroit worship office a couple of years ago. It was in response to questions I had about why the parish I was attending at the time had no kneelers and why nobody knelt, even during the Consecration.

My argument was that lack of kneelers did not satisfy the “some other good reason” in the GIRM. Apparently, his Eminence Adam Cardinal Maida disagrees. Even so, I was disappointed that the position of our Archbishop was never publicized so we know where he stands (no pun intended) on the matter.

Interestingly, the cut-off point for this new requirement (late 90’s, if I recall) was just after this and another nearby parish underwent substantial renovation and expansion. So they just made the cut! :rolleyes:
 
When my pastor came to my Manhattan parish in 2001 the first thing he did was move the tabernacle to a prominent place (**the **prominent place) in the sanctuary. Also got a grand new tabernacle. No doubt what the center of our parishg is. As the pastor Fr. Rutler reminds us, Christ said "If I am lifted up I will draw all men to myself.
And so he has. Ourt parish has been thriving, growing, pulsing with life, record confessions and vocations ever since.
 
Our pastor just tried to get permission to move the tabernacle back into the sanctuary this year, but no luck. The consoling factor is that the chapel of reservation is a truly beautiful area of the church, probably the prettiest part of the entire church, where we have daily mass. There will also be substantial renovation to make it easier to find it, moving walls etc, so the chapel can be seen from the nave. Less like “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.”
 
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ames61:
Our pastor just tried to get permission to move the tabernacle back into the sanctuary this year, but no luck. The consoling factor is that the chapel of reservation is a truly beautiful area of the church, probably the prettiest part of the entire church, where we have daily mass. There will also be substantial renovation to make it easier to find it, moving walls etc, so the chapel can be seen from the nave. Less like “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.”
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or…‘it would take Mary 3 days to find her Son in some churches today’. Not sure where I heard this quote, but I thought it was good.
 
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ames61:
Our pastor just tried to get permission to move the tabernacle back into the sanctuary this year, but no luck. The consoling factor is that the chapel of reservation is a truly beautiful area of the church, probably the prettiest part of the entire church, where we have daily mass. There will also be substantial renovation to make it easier to find it, moving walls etc, so the chapel can be seen from the nave. Less like “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.”
Click to expand...
Why would the pastor need to get permission from anyone (except the bishop) to do anything!!??
 
Anima Christi:
Why would the pastor need to get permission from anyone (except the bishop) to do anything!!??
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probably has to get the ok from the good ol’ pastoral council of dissident nuns and laywomen.
 
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