Where not using contraception can kill

[nablaise]

Situations like this confirm my beliel that sex is simply meant for procreation. And love have to fit into this context.

God is love, life, and truth.

So we are not celebrating God’s love with sex when sex is putting someone in danger of death. And we can not devide those three aspects of God without sinning.

Of course sex can be sort of life giving for the two individual involved. But in this case, it is not. Unless if a man had such self-mastery as to control his ejaculation naturally. Meaning that he can love his wife, and decide to plant the seed or not according to his will.
This may not just depend on the man, but on both the individuals.
Well it is a matter of meditation, practice, and prayer for everyone.

God bless and praying for this situation

 

[kage_ar]

Oh capt’n.

I’ve read the package insert on every type of Birth Control pill/shot/ring/implant out there on the market today. Each of them states that the product may prevent implantation.

Since the only thing that can implant is a fertilized egg, which became a human being at the nanosecond of fertilization… what happens by that teeney human being who cannot implant and grow? It is destroyed.

Perhaps you are in a different country and your package inserts do not read the same way? In the US, they are honest about the potential “side effect”.

 

[KathleenElsie]

The Pill does not destroy fertilized eggs; it prevents ovulation so that eggs are not released in the first place. This is a falsehood. The uterine wall is weakened and unable to nurish the baby when it tries to attach. Also if the life of the woman is really in danger then even the 2 or 3% of pregnancy is toooo high.

Non-hormonal solutions: If conception brings with it a threat to the mother’s life, then a permanent sterilization (i.e., tubal ligation for the woman or vasectomy for the man) would be the most effective. If conception would be desirable and medically approved in the future, then a non-hormonal copper IUD (stops implantation after conception early abortion) (i.e., Paragard) would be most effective. Also available: diaphragms, cervical caps, spermicides, etc. each method mentioned here also has a failure rate and thus the woman is risking her life if her medical condition is life threatening. Abstinence does not risk the life of the woman or man.

In order to subscribe to the Church’s teachings on birth control and being open to life, none of these suggestions is condoned. If a woman is willing to risk her life by relying on Natural Family Planning alone, then she should be mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually prepared for the consequences.

Women who suffer from conditions such as PCOS generally opt for hormonal birth control methods, such as the Pill, the patch and the ring. However, the patch contains about 60% more estrogen than is necessary to manage fertility and it dramatically increases the risk of cardiovascular problems that are associated with hormonal birth control. At present, the ring is the lowest-dose combined hormonal birth control method on the market. The ring stops a started pregnancy for attaching.

Without knowing what your specific medical condition is, it’s difficult for anyone to offer you specific solutions. I, for one, do not believe that God expects women to lay down their lives on the altar of obedience to Church teachings in order to have a satisfying sexual relationship with their husbands.

Speak with your priest. See what he says.

capt

Vatican Newspaper Publishes Article Detailing Birth Control Pill as Cause of Abortion and Cancer

“Curiously”, Castelvi wrote, this information on the abortifacient effect of the Pill “does not reach the general public,” despite being well-known to researchers.
The hundred-page report, published in German, is an analysis of scientific data on the effects of the Pill and includes three hundred bibliographic citations, mostly from specialized medical journals.
The report “clearly demonstrates” that anovulant, low-dose hormonal birth control pills work not only by preventing ovulation but also by causing the death of an already existing child in the uterine wall. This embryonic person, Castellvi wrote, “even in its early days, is something other than an egg or female germ cell.” From the embryonic stage, the child grows in a coordinated way and this development, unless prevented, “ends with its exit from the womb in nine months, ready to devour a litre of milk.”
The report also notes that the International Agency for Research of Cancer, an agency of the World Health Organization, reported in July 2005 that the oral preparations of combined estrogen-progestogens common in birth control pills are classified in a group of carcinogenic agents.

nationalproliferadio.net/Article.asp?id=1088665&spid=

 

[captbackfire]

“already existing child”
“embryonic person”
“the child grows in a coordinated way”
“ends with its exit from the womb in nine months, ready to devour a litre of milk”

Bias.

And the most telling: “The report ‘clearly demonstrates’ …” Their quotation marks.

Improper use of hormonal birth control methods can result in conception: missed pills, pills taken at different times during the day, vomiting or diarrhea (which can cause lack of absorption). Improper placement or movement of the ring. On and on …

Yes, mistakes occur. The option for the original poster, if she believes that her faith is more important than her marriage, is to abstain. Then either partner, if they desire, can file for an annulment. When we embark on marriage and end up in just a platonic friendship, what is left? I don’t doubt that some people sacrifice their lives as offerings to God and stay in relationships without physical intimacy. If that is their choice, then more power to them.

It simply would not be my choice.

capt

 

[Texas_Roofer]

…what the writer says …

.

This is the problem. Both sides on this debate often overstate their position

 

[captbackfire]

captbackfire…i would say that God does expect us to follow the teachings of the Church…which is why he (via the Church instituted by Christ) tells us to ABSTAIN when it means protecting the life of your wife. It is the only Church approved solution…period. Finding the answer that ONE WANTS to HEAR by asking your priest does not change the teaching of the Holy Father and the Holy Catholic Church. Please carefully re-consider the advice you are giving here, and please correct me if I mis-understood your answer.

Peace be with you.
J.A.

Does every priest not assume the responsibility of counseling his parishioners with the heart and soul of Roman Catholicism in mind? Surely you are not suggesting that a priest would deviate from the teachings of his holy mother the Church in favor of giving a troubled child of God the answer that he or she wants to hear in such grievous circumstances? Do you believe that the priesthood is a popularity contest?

My intention is not to give advice. My intention is to inform. There are many posters here who believe what I have provided is disinformation. Some would back away from the salmon cooking on their grill to exclaim that birth control pills are carcinogenic, all the while glossing over the fact that the very methods we use to cook and air we breathe and the water we drink have the capacity to cause cancer.

It’s the original poster’s choice. I wish her luck. I pray that her husband is willing to stand by her, whatever road they may follow. I would be greatly interested to hear how this turns out.

And I’d be particularly interested to know why kage_ar is in possession of physicians’ inserts for every method of birth control on the market today. Does this collection stem from a generalized interest on how the female body works or occasionally doesn’t work? Or is this a gathering arsenal in the fight against choice?

capt

 

[SeekingHeaven]

Think about this. Contraception is linked directly to lust not to love. It is very possible, but wrong, to strongly lust after one’s spouse. Lust is an inordinate desire for personal pleasure without due regard to the feelings of your spouse.

Apparently not true. I just read an answer in the ‘Ask An Apologetic’ section stating that a couple does not need to be in love to be married. If a married couple must consummate their marriage and keep marital relations and there is no love present in that relationship, what is that? The answer stating they don’t need to be in love said that wouldn’t be sinful. Is this a case of lust?

 

[kage_ar]

And I’d be particularly interested to know why kage_ar is in possession of physicians’ inserts for every method of birth control on the market today. Does this collection stem from a generalized interest on how the female body works or occasionally doesn’t work? Or is this a gathering arsenal in the fight against choice?

capt

If you read what I wrote, I stated I’ve read the package inserts - they are available online at the drug company websites.

As a woman, as mother, I have a responsibility to be an INFORMED consumer.

Fight against “choice” - if by that you infer that I am pro-life I will confirm that I am 1000000001% pro life, and proud of it.

 

[captbackfire]

If you read what I wrote, I stated I’ve read the package inserts - they are available online at the drug company websites.

As a woman, as mother, I have a responsibility to be an INFORMED consumer.

Fight against “choice” - if by that you infer that I am pro-life I will confirm that I am 1000000001% pro life, and proud of it.

Are we then to understand that you are “consuming” artificial birth control in some form?

Is your child or children old enough to be informed as well? Have you taken those steps? Will you take those steps? What do you, or will you, tell them about vaccines or anything else you may choose to subject them to with possible side effects, which means any- and everything they ingest or are exposed to?

I see that you are pro-life. I can appreciate that. We disagree at the juncture where adults assume responsibility for their own lives and their own afterlives. You prefer to evangelize; I prefer to allow others to use their minds, hearts and free will to shape their worlds. I do not feel compelled to try to influence them one way or the other, and that includes my grown daughter.

For every one of you fighting the “good fight”, I am doing the same.

capt

 

[Caesar517]

Those are some odd and personal questions, captbackfire. Perhaps you should ask them in a private message.

 

[captbackfire]

I don’t consider these questions to be “odd” or inappropriate in the least. I am interested in how today’s Catholic parent is preparing his or her children for the challenges of living in modern society, how they are instructing them concerning sexuality, courtship, abstinence, birth control, child rearing, the whole package. If we look at only the tip of the gazelle’s ear we will never appreciate the beauty of the entire animal. Why would anyone think these questions are “odd”?

That’s a major drawback to the conservative view, if you will: so much is hidden, as if it is something to be ashamed of.

capt

 

[wanner47]

Personally, if a pregnancy would kill me, I’d rather abstain altogether than take the risk of condoms. That’s like playing Russian Roulette with your life.

 

[mdr]

Situations like this confirm my beliel that sex is simply meant for procreation. And love have to fit into this context.

What I’ve been taught is that sex is meant to be experienced only in the service of authentic love.

God is love, life, and truth.

AMEN!!

So we are not celebrating God’s love with sex when sex is putting someone in danger of death. And we can not devide those three aspects of God without sinning.

Of course sex can be sort of life giving for the two individual involved. But in this case, it is not. Unless if a man had such self-mastery as to control his ejaculation naturally. Meaning that he can love his wife, and decide to plant the seed or not according to his will.
This may not just depend on the man, but on both the individuals.
Well it is a matter of meditation, practice, and prayer for everyone.

WHOA, NELLIE!! I see BIG problems with this, from both secular and religious points of view.

Secularly, you might not recall from biology classes that the pre-ejaculate fluid contains active sperm, and that coitus interruptus can still cause pregnancy.

Religiously, what you are describing is the sin of Onan. Sorry I don’t have chapter and verse handy, but the Lord struck him dead for that. It is not morally licit for Catholics. Period.

God bless and praying for this situation

Amen again!

 

[Caesar517]

I don’t consider these questions to be “odd” or inappropriate in the least. I am interested in how today’s Catholic parent is preparing his or her children for the challenges of living in modern society, how they are instructing them concerning sexuality, courtship, abstinence, birth control, child rearing, the whole package.

Nevertheless, it’s off topic. The parenting forum can be found here.

 

[adelore]

I have a medical condition where a pregnancy would cause serious medical problems quickly and as the months go both myself and our child would probably die before anything medical could be done.

Because of this (and not wanting to use the Pill because of its destruction of fertilised eggs) I opted for NFP and condoms.

I am unable to rely on NFP alone because of medical problems that do not give a predictable cycle.

Is there somewhere that says that a married couple who find themselves in this situation can use preventative methods to be able to have sex and to avoid death or medical complications that would cause severe impairments to result?

Lou

Since we don’t know just what your medical condition is, I will give you a couple of examples that have happened in my life, or the life of my family memebers.

First myself. I was Pregnant for our 4th child. I had a growing tumor in the tissue wall of my uters. Not inside the uterus, nor outside of it, but in the tissues of the uterus. I had several medical complacations. Just to name two of them, the muscels that hold the uterus in place tore apart. (due to the size of the baby and the growing tumor)

My tumor continued to grow along with our child. With plenty of faith in God, (of course this did not stop the pain, nor the many complications) our daughter was born a healthy 9 lbs.

What happened to the tumor? It of course stayed in the Uterus walls. Later (1 yr) it continued to grow and I started to hemoriage. The doctors did a D&C (after they tested me to make sure I wasn’t pregnant first). Then they put me on meds to try to stop the bleeding. When after 3 months went by and I continued to bleed so hard that I was at the point of bleeding to death, Doctors gave me the choice to have a partical Hystorecomy (to remove the uterus and my cervix, as it was full of tumors too.) or die. I agreed but only if we did a Pregnancy test first to make sure I wasn’t Pregnat. The test came back Neg. The emergency surgery was done.

This was not done as a form of birth control. Yet without the surgery I wouldn’t be here today.

Our Oldest Daughter. Is now pregnant with her 4th child. Her third child is now 3. Her husband and her used the NFP, but she ended up pregnant anyway, as NFP is not 100%. She is a Very High Risk Pregnancy. She has already had 3 C-Sections. The Doctor’s (more than one) told her that she should have an abortion, that her life and the babys was in danger. Being of Catholic beliefs, she searched for another Doctor. She found one and explained to him that her faith in God would pull her through. That she didn’t believe in abortion, simple as that. If God choose to take her and the baby, then that was His will. Her due date is March 3, 2009. My daughter and I have talked and I agree and back her 100% on her choice, that happens to be a Catholic Church Truth.

The doctors are going to do the C-Section in mid Feb. The doctors won’t let our daughter go into labor, as she is a women who can’t feel her labor and the labor alone could split the uterus where the scar tissues are from the other 3 C-sections.

Because of many medical problems for her (most likely inherited from myself and all women in my family, down from my mother, to my sisters, my daughters and nieces, all seem to have the same types of problem.) the Doctor wants to do surgery after the baby is born. Not for birth control, but because of other medical complications. She has agreed with the Doctors request. I must admit I agree with it also.

Since I"m not a Doctor, nor do I know what your medical complications would be, it’s hard to give you advice.

Although the best advice I can give you is this. Look into the Catholic Ctechism and the Cannon Laws and also talk to a Priest. I do know that some surgies are allowed for Medical Conditions, (not to be used as an “excuse” (poor choice of words, but I didn’t know what other word to use.) for birth control though. I’m sure you’ll find out what you need to know.

I’ll pray for Gods Guidence for you in this.

 

[06convert]

Actually I thought God did expect us to lay down our lives for others? He died for us, shouldn’t we be willing to do the same for Him and His children?

Sex is a great gift for married couples, however only if both people are open to children and open to God’s will. Contraceptives are going against that. Also, choosing to have sex while gambling with a condition that could be fatal I’m afriad isn’t much different than excess speeding, or driving while intoxicated. If you are careless with your life that is a sin.

Doing something that is not morally right (using contraceptives) doesn’t justify the outcome. Especially when the outcome is pleasures of sex without the ability to be open to Children.

 

[cfrancis]

Does every priest not assume the responsibility of counseling his parishioners with the heart and soul of Roman Catholicism in mind? Surely you are not suggesting that a priest would deviate from the teachings of his holy mother the Church in favor of giving a troubled child of God the answer that he or she wants to hear in such grievous circumstances? Do you believe that the priesthood is a popularity contest?

I’m giving the benefit of the doubt that the above is sarcasm. We Catholics pray and desire all our priests to be faithful stewards of the Faith, but we realize they are human, and many fail in this regard. Even a cursory search of the Forum would reveal many stories of priests giving advice/info contrary to Church teaching.

If this surprises you, I would simply ask, in your profession, are there no “bad apples?”

And I’d be particularly interested to know why kage_ar is in possession of physicians’ inserts for every method of birth control on the market today. Does this collection stem from a generalized interest on how the female body works or occasionally doesn’t work? Or is this a gathering arsenal in the fight against choice?capt

This would be the problem with liberals: making assertions to fit their presumptions/agendas. Kage_ar never said ABC was being purchased and/or consumed:

If you read what I wrote, I stated I’ve read the package inserts - they are available online at the drug company websites.

As a woman, as mother, I have a responsibility to be an INFORMED consumer.

Fight against “choice” - if by that you infer that I am pro-life I will confirm that I am 1000000001% pro life, and proud of it.

Are we then to understand that you are “consuming” artificial birth control in some form?

And when presented with the facts, it appears the agenda cannot be abandoned…

 

[kage_ar]

Are we then to understand that you are “consuming” artificial birth control in some form?

In the United States, medicine IS a business. Anyone who visits a doctor or takes an aspirin is a consumer.

As a a woman b a person with profound orthopedic issues and c a person with a severe genetic deformity, every medical professional I have come in contact with - save ONE - has attempted to twist my arm into artificial birth control or sterilization.

Assuming you are a man, you may not apprecate how hard sell the birth control industry is.

I have only been Catholic for a few years, and have been all three of the above for decades. Now that I am Catholic, one would think that doctors would respect THAT answer, but, no, they still try to convince you what is “best”. I have to have all of the most updated facts in order to converse with them from an informed point of view. Believe it or not, people usually find it refreshing to see that someone took the time to do the research.

This gal ain’t a blind follower of ANYTHIING.

Is your child or children old enough to be informed as well? Have you taken those steps? Will you take those steps? What do you, or will you, tell them about vaccines or anything else you may choose to subject them to with possible side effects, which means any- and everything they ingest or are exposed to?

My teenager (one living child) is very well informed, thank you. He also knows how to research for himself. We are a family who reads and we inform ourselves. It is our duty as Catholics to stay informed.

I see that you are pro-life. I can appreciate that. We disagree at the juncture where adults assume responsibility for their own lives and their own afterlives. You prefer to evangelize; I prefer to allow others to use their minds, hearts and free will to shape their worlds. I do not feel compelled to try to influence them one way or the other, and that includes my grown daughter.

For every one of you fighting the “good fight”, I am doing the same.

capt

As an adult covert to Catholicism, I can tell you that I would not BE Catholic if I did not use my own mind. Catholicism is based on Faith and Reason.

God has commanded that I be salt and light to the world. Both influence, and I pray God that I have been some small influence on someone.

 

[mdr]

… Our Oldest Daughter. Is now pregnant with her 4th child. Her third child is now 3. Her husband and her used the NFP, but she ended up pregnant anyway, as NFP is not 100%. She is a Very High Risk Pregnancy. She has already had 3 C-Sections. The Doctor’s (more than one) told her that she should have an abortion, that her life and the babys was in danger. Being of Catholic beliefs, she searched for another Doctor. She found one and explained to him that her faith in God would pull her through. That she didn’t believe in abortion, simple as that. If God choose to take her and the baby, then that was His will. Her due date is March 3, 2009. My daughter and I have talked and I agree and back her 100% on her choice, that happens to be a Catholic Church Truth.

The doctors are going to do the C-Section in mid Feb. The doctors won’t let our daughter go into labor, as she is a women who can’t feel her labor and the labor alone could split the uterus where the scar tissues are from the other 3 C-sections.

Maybe your daughter (and your whole family) can find some comfort in the intercession of St. Gianna Beretta Molla. If you don’t know her story, you can find it at saintgianna.org.

For the OP, a good resource for finding treatment options might also be ncbcenter.org. Here is a quote from their home page:

The National Catholic Bioethics Center (NCBC), established in 1972, conducts research, consultation, publishing and education to promote human dignity in health care and the life sciences, and derives its message directly from the teachings of the Catholic Church. The results of this research are available though this website and our various educational and publishing activities, workshops and seminars.

The NCBC has both the medical and the theological resources to help Catholics with all sorts of health situations to figure out their morally licit possible courses of action. For unusual situations they can be invaluable, as they have had much broader exposure to unusual conditions than many individual doctors and can suggest possibilities that might not have been thought of.

Good luck, pray hard, God bless!

 

[maryjk]

Personally, if a pregnancy would kill me, I’d rather abstain altogether than take the risk of condoms. That’s like playing Russian Roulette with your life.

I’m with you. If my child and I would die, if I became pregnant. I couldn’t imagine putting my life in the hands of a condom manufacturer.