Where prudence ends and racism begins

[ransom14]

This is my first post here so I hope it will be received as a worthwhile one I couldn’t locate this subject in a search although I’m sure it’s been addressed by many…

My father (a great Christian) is a hardcore conservative and, subsequently, has very strong feelings about immigration. This is all good and well until recently it seems to be crossing from logical reasoning about the negative aspects of unchecked immigration to outright racism.

I’m not trying to get into politics. That would be for a different forum. What I’m looking for is a clean cut, logical explanation of why the following scenario is wrong in God’s eyes:

You’re walking down the street and you see a Hispanic person and think: “X percent of Hispanics are illegal, so there is an X percent chance that gentleman is illegal… (bad thoughts ensue)”

My first argument to him would be that there is no need for any assumptions at all. Just look at him as another guy on the street.

And his argument and logic condensed into a couple sentences is as follows: “Well pretend I’m getting gas at night in a city with high rates of such-and-such-minority gang violence, and a member of such-and-such-minority comes towards me dressed like a gangster. It would be stupid and dangerous to make absolutely no judgments about anyone even though there are real statistics saying you should”

I’m aware of the elementary nature of this arguments, I did that on purpose, but I can’t seem to draw that line clearly between healthy assumptions and sinful judgments/racism. It’s hard to get out of those gray areas and so are conversation just goes in circles…

Any advice? I’m looking for black and white (no pun intended) simplicity here.

 

[Christy_Beth]

I’m not sure there is an easy answer. If you’re in a high crime area, then take needed precautions. And don’t assume you’re safe enough around people just like yourself.

Just a note here. Several years ago my dad, who was a claims adjuster, stopped to get gas at a station in downtown KC. When he went inside to pay, he left the door unlocked and the keys in the ignition. Need I say what happened next? If I had done something like that, I would have never heard the end of it. He should have known the risks involved.

 

[teachccd]

It seems reasonable that in a high crime area one must take precautions and protect themselves by not trusting everyone who comes along. But while I can see your father’s position to a degree, we cannot judge completely by appearance. I would think that racism begins when one holds some form of hatred toward a group because of stereotypical assumptions. Racism begins when one places themselves higher than someone else just because they think that they are supreme in some way. Prudence judges situations while predjudice judges people.

It is very hard to change other people’s views but it can be very easy to set proper examples. So the next time that you father mentions a particular race in a negative way perhaps you might find a story whereby someone in the same ethnic group did something good for you. Point out that there are people in your ethnicity that have wronged others. Point out that we are all people just trying to get along in a world filled with greed, selfishness and hatred. Then let your dad know that it was someone with that same attitude (Cain and Abel come to mind) many moons ago that started this whole process. Now he wouldn’t want to associate himself with that same kind of behavior, would he?

Prudence ends when the love ends and racism begins when the hatred begins. Really that’s the bottom line…teachccd

 

[ransom14]

Prudence ends when the love ends and racism begins when the hatred begins. Really that’s the bottom line…teachccd

That’s very much what I was thinking and trying to put into words. It seems that prudence becomes prejudice when one’s mind goes from contemplating facts and drawing logical assumptions to entertaining feelings of hatred.

 

[TeachAg]

Being a conservative and possibly a constitutionalist, I would bet that he believes strongly in the rights granted by the constitution. I would ask him if he believes that people should be considered innocent until proven guilty in the case of someone suspected of a crime. If so, this is no different in the case of X% of a given race being illegals.

The second scenario has a fairly easy solution to me as well. In that example, I am not making judgment based on the race, but rather the attire and behavior. If a black guy or a white guy shows up dressed like a gangster and behaving a certain way, I am going to respond accordingly. If a black or a white guy shows up wearing a suit or well dressed, I will be less likely to be intimidated. It has nothing to do with the race specifically, and everything to do with the other warning signs that the person may be up to no good.

I hope this makes some sense. Teachccd has a good response as well in his last line.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Being a conservative and possibly a constitutionalist, I would bet that he believes strongly in the rights granted by the constitution. I would ask him if he believes that people should be considered innocent until proven guilty in the case of someone suspected of a crime. If so, this is no different in the case of X% of a given race being illegals.

The second scenario has a fairly easy solution to me as well. In that example, I am not making judgment based on the race, but rather the attire and behavior. If a black guy or a white guy shows up dressed like a gangster and behaving a certain way, I am going to respond accordingly. If a black or a white guy shows up wearing a suit or well dressed, I will be less likely to be intimidated. It has nothing to do with the race specifically, and everything to do with the other warning signs that the person may be up to no good.

I hope this makes some sense. Teachccd has a good response as well in his last line.

Appreciate seeing Christian charity & common sense in these posts!

 

[D0UBTFIRE]

Being a conservative and possibly a constitutionalist, I would bet that he believes strongly in the rights granted by the constitution. I would ask him if he believes that people should be considered innocent until proven guilty in the case of someone suspected of a crime. If so, this is no different in the case of X% of a given race being illegals.

The second scenario has a fairly easy solution to me as well. In that example, I am not making judgment based on the race, but rather the attire and behavior. If a black guy or a white guy shows up dressed like a gangster and behaving a certain way, I am going to respond accordingly. If a black or a white guy shows up wearing a suit or well dressed, I will be less likely to be intimidated. It has nothing to do with the race specifically, and everything to do with the other warning signs that the person may be up to no good.

I hope this makes some sense. Teachccd has a good response as well in his last line.

I agree with this 100%. I myself am a hispanic female, and there are hispanics out there that give me the creeps by the way they dress and act. If a person dresses respectably they don’t inspire fear but if there’s a man dressed like a thug, I don’t care what color his skin is, I will be on high alert.

 

[Arwen037]

Someone who is dressed like a gangster wants to be perceived that way. A gangster is a threat to you, so I don’t think anyone can blame you for being concerned. Now if you see a Hispanic in a business suit in the middle of the day and you call the cops because they are Hispanic, you are crossing the line. It is hard to tell where exactly the line is.

 

[Middleman]

I don’t see any reason to beat ones self up about this. If I see a rowdy looking person who is African American, I will consider that person a threat and take prudent measures. The Black community has a lot of violent criminals in it who would only be too happy to relieve me of my wallet at gunpoint.

The Black underclass unfortunately is extremely troubled, sad to say. The percentage of children born to unwed mothers is much higher than in the White community. This contributes to a greater sense of alienation within that community, leading to violent crime.

So yes, I will do a bit of private racial profiling when sizing up people when I’m in a situation where I might be vulnerable.

 

[Newbie2]

Good point.

In Detroit, there is a high black population. Crime is high in Detroit. Therefor, the likelihood is that if one is going to be mugged it will be by a black hoodlum.

Same probably goes for other ethnic areas of large cities, maybe hispanics in South Central LA?

Regardless of the ethnic or racial makeup of the area one finds themself, if it’s a high-crime or suspicious area, it’s prudent to be prudent.

I work in one of the wealthiest cities in my State, and it’s primarily “white”, a distant suburb of Detroit. Someone that I know saw a black person walking around our strip mass, and was “concerned”. We ribbed him that “they are allowed to walk around here too”, but in all seriousness, that person’s “concern” crossed the line.

 

[ransom14]

We ribbed him that “they are allowed to walk around here too”, but in all seriousness, that person’s “concern” crossed the line.

Yeah I get what you guys are saying and I agree it’s “prudent to be prudent” when necessary. The hard part is that the point at which your “concern” crosses the line varies for everyone. It’s a gray area. Which makes it hard to convince someone that they are drawing their line on the prejudice side. I was just trying to reduce that gray area to simple way to a black and white. I guess life’s not always that simple.

 

[teachccd]

We are commanded to love others as we love ourselves. Prudence allows for our discernment in situations where our self-preservation may be in jeopardy. It does not allow for us to hate first and then discern whether or not the initial hatred was valid.

In our secular society we may tend to categorize individuals by the color of ther skin. But do we also realize that men commit way more crimes than women? It’s statistically proven if you just look at the number of men in our prison system. That is primary and then one can divide those men by ethnicity. Should we then fear all men and assume that all men are up to no good simply because of these stats?

Jesus was not only a man but He was arrested and convicted. Should we then throw Him into a group of those we should avoid as an outcast because His outward appearance deems Him as a common criminal? I think not.

Racism is hatred. It is a cancer of society that does nothing but destroy and breeds hatred. No one is born with prejudice. It is learned and passed on because of pride; the idea that one human has authority over another. Criminals come in all colors, shapes and sizes. Men kill, women kill and even children kill.

Obviously we do not want to be stupid about this. If one enters an area where the crime rate is high they should take the same precautions as one would take in any hazardous situation. This is prudence. But we are not to look at an individual and immediately come to the conclusion that they are initially evil and must prove themselves good. This is racism. We all make evil choices in our lives. Many times our prejudices can be more lethal than any weapon since it kills the soul…teachccd

 

[teachccd]

I don’t see any reason to beat ones self up about this. If I see a rowdy looking person who is African American, I will consider that person a threat and take prudent measures. The Black community has a lot of violent criminals in it who would only be too happy to relieve me of my wallet at gunpoint.

The Black underclass unfortunately is extremely troubled, sad to say. The percentage of children born to unwed mothers is much higher than in the White community. This contributes to a greater sense of alienation within that community, leading to violent crime.

So yes, I will do a bit of private racial profiling when sizing up people when I’m in a situation where I might be vulnerable.

There you go…