Where should I be during the Eucharistic Prayer?

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OK, so several months ago a local priest started inviting everyone up to the altar during the Eucharistic Prayer at Mass on Thursdays. When he started doing this he made it clear that we shouldn’t feel like we have to go up, so I didn’t and I won’t. Well last week only a couple people went up and he was clearly disappointed and indicated in a round about way that those of us that chose to stay in the pews had some hang-ups. He was very nice about it, but it is clear he wants us up there. After Mass someone said we should all just be obedient to the priest and go up. I am about half afraid to go to Mass tomorrow. I know what the GIRM says but is this really a big deal? I guess what I am really afraid of is I will be the only one in the pews tomorrow. Everyone will be up at the altar.
 
You’re doing the tight thing, but your discomfort is completely understandable. Perhaps it would help to offer it to our Lord in union with the loneliness and isolation He felt on the cross. That might help strengthen your resolve and turn a negative into a positive for you.

Hope that helps.
 
Ditto. In your pew, on your knees, in union with the Lord (hey, we’ll be praying for you, so you won’t be there alone!👍 )

Has the priest explained why HE has this particular “hang up”?
 
Is there no way that you can approach Father and say, “Father, from everything that I have read, heard, and seen, this practice is not to be permitted at Mass. So even though it is optional for me to go up, it bothers me that some do go up, because, no matter how well intentioned the offer is, it is not still right. It bothers me that the Mass has this illicit practice offered, and it bothers me that you are trying to encourage more people to follow this. Further, to imply that people who take the choice not to come up–in essence, abiding by the rules–have hang ups–seems to encourage people to break a rule, to go against their conscience, and makes them seem to be at fault for making a choice that, you, Father, apparently don’t want them to make.”

It appears to me that Father has (and it may be that he feels very strongly that he is right and that he ‘can’ do this; there are apparently a fair to middling numbers of ‘popes’ who have come out of the seminary) decided not only that he wants to do this, he wants to be validated and encouraged by having ‘everybody’ come and do this, in essence because this will ‘prove’ how ‘right’ he is.

And he is resorting now not to the ‘it’s a choice’, but even further, “If you DON’T choose A, then there is something wrong with you.”

Optional, my foot. The next thing, mark my words, is going to be that this practice ‘spills over’ into the other Masses, and becomes not only the ‘sole’ option, but will start opening the door to all sorts of abuses.
 
Does the priest have ministers in the sanctuary? Perhaps he should have, perhaps people should volunteer for this.

Perhaps others do not know what the GIRM says. Perhaps the following will be helpful for a letter to the bishop, priest and/or those who attend Mass.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“154. … The priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. In the dioceses of the United States of America, for a good reason, on special occasions (for example, in the case of a funeral, a wedding, or when civic leaders are present) the priest may offer the sign of peace to a few of the faithful near the sanctuary.”

“195. Upon reaching the altar, the lector makes a profound bow with the others. If he is carrying the Book of the Gospels, he approaches the altar and places the Book of the Gospels upon it. Then the lector takes his own place in the sanctuary with the other ministers.”

“215. After the prayer over the offerings has been said by the principal celebrant, the concelebrants approach the altar and stand around it, but in such a way that they do not obstruct the execution of the rites and that the sacred action may be seen clearly by the faithful. …”

“294. The People of God, gathered for Mass, has a coherent and hierarchical structure, which finds its expression in the variety of ministries and the variety of actions according to the different parts of the celebration. The general ordering of the sacred building must be such that in some way it conveys the image of the gathered assembly and allows the appropriate ordering of all the participants, as well as facilitating each in the proper carrying out of his function.
The faithful and the choir should have a place that facilitates their active participation. [footnote 114: Cf. Sacred Congregation of Rites, Instruction Inter Oecumenici, on the orderly carrying out of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, 26 September 1964, nos. 97-98: AAS 56 (1964), p. 899.]
The priest celebrant, the deacon, and the other ministers have places in the sanctuary. Seats for concelebrants should also be prepared there. If, however, their number is great, seats should be arranged in another part of the church, but near the altar.
All these elements, even though they must express the hierarchical structure and the diversity of ministries, should nevertheless bring about a close and coherent unity that is clearly expressive of the unity of the entire holy people.”

“295. The sanctuary is the place where the altar stands, where the word of God is proclaimed, and where the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers exercise their offices. It should suitably be marked off from the body of the church either by its being somewhat elevated or by a particular structure and ornamentation.”

“310. … Likewise, seats should be arranged in the sanctuary for concelebrating priests as well as for priests who are present for the celebration in choir dress but who are not concelebrating.
The seat for the deacon should be placed near that of the celebrant. Seats for the other ministers are to be arranged so that they are clearly distinguishable from those for the clergy and so that the ministers are easily able to fulfill the function entrusted to them. [footnote 121: Cf. Sacred Congregation of Rites, Instruction Inter Oecumenici, on the orderly carrying out of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, 26 September 1964, no. 92: AAS 56 (1964), p. 898.]
III. THE ARRANGEMENT OF THE CHURCH
*The Places for the Faithful *
311. Places should be arranged with appropriate care for the faithful so that they are able to participate in the sacred celebrations visually and spiritually, in the proper manner.”
 
Holland said:
OK, so several months ago a local priest started inviting everyone up to the altar during the Eucharistic Prayer at Mass on Thursdays. When he started doing this he made it clear that we shouldn’t feel like we have to go up, so I didn’t and I won’t. Well last week only a couple people went up and he was clearly disappointed and indicated in a round about way that those of us that chose to stay in the pews had some hang-ups. He was very nice about it, but it is clear he wants us up there. After Mass someone said we should all just be obedient to the priest and go up. I am about half afraid to go to Mass tomorrow. I know what the GIRM says but is this really a big deal? I guess what I am really afraid of is I will be the only one in the pews tomorrow. Everyone will be up at the altar.
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Where should you be? In your pew on your knees.
 
Thanks everyone! I will be at Mass tomorrow; in the pew and on my knees.🙂
 
I’m sorry you’re being subjected to this.

The faithful have a right to an authentic liturgy celebrated according to the practice of the Church. Don’t let that priest commit an injustice against you!

Good luck!
 
Well Mass, was a regular, authentic, no funny stuff Mass on Thursday. When we got to the General Intercessions of the Mass the priest asked us to pray for the progressive and conservative people in the diocese; that they would be able to settle their differences. I guess God does notice when we pray. 😃 I hope and pray that they do; our poor Diocese is in such disarray
 
John_Lilburne said:
Does the priest have ministers in the sanctuary? Perhaps he should have, perhaps people should volunteer for this.

Perhaps others do not know what the GIRM says. Perhaps the following will be helpful for a letter to the bishop, priest and/or those who attend Mass.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“154. … The priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. In the dioceses of the United States of America, for a good reason, on special occasions (for example, in the case of a funeral, a wedding, or when civic leaders are present) the priest may offer the sign of peace to a few of the faithful near the sanctuary.”

“195. Upon reaching the altar, the lector makes a profound bow with the others. If he is carrying the Book of the Gospels, he approaches the altar and places the Book of the Gospels upon it. Then the lector takes his own place in the sanctuary with the other ministers.”

“215. After the prayer over the offerings has been said by the principal celebrant, the concelebrants approach the altar and stand around it, but in such a way that they do not obstruct the execution of the rites and that the sacred action may be seen clearly by the faithful. …”

“294. The People of God, gathered for Mass, has a coherent and hierarchical structure, which finds its expression in the variety of ministries and the variety of actions according to the different parts of the celebration. The general ordering of the sacred building must be such that in some way it conveys the image of the gathered assembly and allows the appropriate ordering of all the participants, as well as facilitating each in the proper carrying out of his function.
The faithful and the choir should have a place that facilitates their active participation. [footnote 114: Cf. Sacred Congregation of Rites, Instruction Inter Oecumenici, on the orderly carrying out of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, 26 September 1964, nos. 97-98: AAS 56 (1964), p. 899.]
The priest celebrant, the deacon, and the other ministers have places in the sanctuary. Seats for concelebrants should also be prepared there. If, however, their number is great, seats should be arranged in another part of the church, but near the altar.
All these elements, even though they must express the hierarchical structure and the diversity of ministries, should nevertheless bring about a close and coherent unity that is clearly expressive of the unity of the entire holy people.”

“295. The sanctuary is the place where the altar stands, where the word of God is proclaimed, and where the priest, the deacon, and the other ministers exercise their offices. It should suitably be marked off from the body of the church either by its being somewhat elevated or by a particular structure and ornamentation.”

“310. … Likewise, seats should be arranged in the sanctuary for concelebrating priests as well as for priests who are present for the celebration in choir dress but who are not concelebrating.
The seat for the deacon should be placed near that of the celebrant. Seats for the other ministers are to be arranged so that they are clearly distinguishable from those for the clergy and so that the ministers are easily able to fulfill the function entrusted to them. [footnote 121: Cf. Sacred Congregation of Rites, Instruction Inter Oecumenici, on the orderly carrying out of the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, 26 September 1964, no. 92: AAS 56 (1964), p. 898.]
III. THE ARRANGEMENT OF THE CHURCH
*The Places for the Faithful *
311. Places should be arranged with appropriate care for the faithful so that they are able to participate in the sacred celebrations visually and spiritually, in the proper manner.”
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John, is there a way to confirm that these are the latest documents on the subject from Rome ? (some are somewhat dated). I started a thread yesterday asking for a way to know definitively the last documents on this subject because a priest told me that the Church lets the priest use his discretion in certain situations to allow lay people gathering around the altar. He said his ‘research’ showd this but coouldn’t tell me off-hand where he learned that - but said he’d look into it. He was very nice about it. I told him I’d do the same.
 
Elzee said:
John, is there a way to confirm that these are the latest documents on the subject from Rome ? (some are somewhat dated). I started a thread yesterday asking for a way to know definitively the last documents on this subject because a priest told me that the Church lets the priest use his discretion in certain situations to allow lay people gathering around the altar. He said his ‘research’ showd this but coouldn’t tell me off-hand where he learned that - but said he’d look into it. He was very nice about it. I told him I’d do the same.
Click to expand...
I have only quoted from one document the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) which was approved for the USA in 2003. The older documents are footnotes in this document referring to older documents.

A more recent document is a letter dated 1 December 2005 from Cardinal Arinze to Mr. Kiko Argüello, Ms. Carmen Hernandez, and Rev. Father Mario Pezzi which includes:

“5. On the manner of receiving Holy Communion, a period of transition (not exceeding two years) is granted to the Neocatechumenal Way to pass from the widespread manner of receiving Holy Communion in its communities (seated, with a cloth-covered table placed at the center of the church instead of the dedicated altar in the sanctuary) to the normal way in which the entire Church receives Holy Communion. This means that the Neocatechumenal Way must begin to adopt the manner of distributing the Body and Blood of Christ that is provided in the liturgical books.”

(This letter can be downloaded as a pdf file from the bottom of catholic-ew.org.uk/liturgy/Newsletter/Volume6/Feb06.html ).

So until 1 December 2007 it is permitted for the Neocatechumanal Way to have its members gathered around the altar.

Amy Welborn reported on a 2004 letter from the founder of LifeTeen, which had:
"As the founder of this youth movement, I am writing to confirm our adherence to the new GIRM, and as always, our obedience to our own local Bishops. In this spirit of obedience, we are asking all parishes that implement the LIFE TEEN model to make the following changes:
  1. In accordance with the new GIRM, teens are no longer to enter the sanctuary for the Eucharistic prayer. Being in the sanctuary is to be reserved for the priest celebrant, concelebrants, and those performing a specific ministry."
    (From amywelborn.typepad.com/openbook/2004/07/lifeteen_and_gi.html ).
The 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum only used the word “sanctaury” once, quoting the 2002 GIRM:

“[72.] It is appropriate “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner”. “The Priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. He does likewise if for a just reason he wishes to extend the sign of peace to some few of the faithful”. “As regards the sign to be exchanged, the manner is to be established by the Conference of Bishops in accordance with the dispositions and customs of the people”, and their acts are subject to the recognitio of the Apostolic See. [footnote 152: Cf. Missale Romanum, Institutio Generalis, n. nn. 82, 154.]”

This is my understanding of the latest information. It is possible that I have missed a document or letter. It is possible that a Conference of Bishops, of some country, has received approval for an adaptation allowing others to be in the sanctuary (although this would surprise me).

The 2002 GIRM includes:
“32. Special celebrations of Mass should observe the guidelines established for them: For Masses with special groups, cf. Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship, Instruction Actio pastoralis, on Masses with special groups, 15 May 1969: AAS 61 (1969), pp. 806-811; for Masses with children, cf. Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship, Directory for Masses with Children, 1 November 1973: AAS 66 (1974), pp. 30-46;”

Sometimes these documents give exceptions for particular grouops. The 1969 Instruction Actio pastoralis allows Mass in a private home, where there will not be a sanctuary. But it has:
“11. There must be a wise choice of the form of celebration and, with due respect for liturgical laws, of the elements best suited to the situation. Therefore: …
c. The prescriptions for an ordinary eucharistic celebration apply to the celebrant’s gestures and the ceremonies as well as the standing, kneeling, and sitting of those present.”
(Documents on the Liturgy 1963-1979, Liturgical Press, Minnesota, 1982, ISBN 0-8146-1281-4, pages 675-676).
 
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