Where should the line be drawn between military service and religious exemption

[robwar]

I think some sort of national service should be required for everyone regardless if there is a war or not.

I believe that to be the case for some of the groups such as Mennonites. I am hoping that some of the posters that are from Quakers or our Jewish friends would comment. I would very much like to see their perspective.

 

[robwar]

I think I would like to broaden the discussion a little bit. What do people think or feel about those who would not want to serve in combat not due to pacifism reasons but because politics or feel the war is unjust even though there is no official proclamation. Or one feels that the war is unconstitutional (US) etc?

 

[Coatimundi]

I think I would like to broaden the discussion a little bit. What do people think or feel about those who would not want to serve in combat not due to pacifism reasons but because politics or feel the war is unjust even though there is no official proclamation. Or one feels that the war is unconstitutional (US) etc?

The purpose of a military draft is to recruit enough people when the number of volunteers is not enough. If we allow individuals to refuse to serve for any reason they choose, then it undermines the very idea of the draft, making it pointless.

 

[robwar]

The purpose of a military draft is to recruit enough people when the number of volunteers is not enough. If we allow individuals to refuse to serve for any reason they choose, then it undermines the very idea of the draft, making it pointless.

I think this might be the crux of it. In the opening example I am referring to, Israel has not just a draft but mandatory serve for everyone but has exempted Orthodox Jews for religious reasons because they claim that they are studying the Torah and are exempt. They are changing this and then they had the prayer/protest over that. I think this whole area isn’t as neat a clean because if there is mandatory service to one’s military or even a draft where does one draw the line between genuine religious objections that some groups do hold and even political reasons (I just don’t believe in this war). Yes God’s law is higher than a countries demands or requirements but where does one draw the line? Yes, one can help in non-combative ways and as some pointed out, that can be more dangerous but even if one just doesn’t want to serve do to politics where do you draw the line? What if you feel this is an unjust war, should you still serve if required, does that mean you are supporting the war even if you think it is wrong?

 

[JimG]

(underlining mine)

The US hasn’t had a military draft since the early 1970’s, so attitudes may have changed, but back then a CO was not allowed to object specifically to the Vietnam War and also say he would fight in the military if the US were invaded.

More recently, active duty service members tried to invoke conscientious objection to the Iraq war, saying it was unjust but not all wars are unjust. Their objection was not upheld.

That’s right. For conscientious objector status to be invoked, the CO must oppose all war, not just specific wars, or the particular war being fought at the moment.

As one who enlisted specifically because the draft was in effect, I wish we still had a draft. I think the military was better for it. It provided a more diverse cross section of people than does the all volunteer professional force, which can tend to become isolated from the people it serves.

 

[Coatimundi]

I think this whole area isn’t as neat a clean because if there is mandatory service to one’s military or even a draft where does one draw the line between genuine religious objections that some groups do hold and even political reasons (I just don’t believe in this war).

In the US, the draft board will want to see evidence that your views have influenced your life for a period of time before filing for CO status. But, yes, the criteria for granting CO status are hazy. Whether someone qualifies, or doesn’t qualify, is at the discretion of the draft board.

Here is a bit of information from the US Selective Service about CO status:

*WHO QUALIFIES?
Beliefs which qualify a registrant for CO status may be religious in nature, but don’t have to be. Beliefs may be moral or ethical; however, a man’s reasons for not wanting to participate in a war must not be based on politics, expediency, or self-interest. In general, the man’s lifestyle prior to making his claim must reflect his current claims.

SERVICE AS A CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR
Two types of service are available to conscientious objectors, and the type assigned is determined by the individual’s specific beliefs. The person who is opposed to any form of military service will be assigned to Alternative Service - described below. The person whose beliefs allow him to serve in the military but in a noncombatant capacity will serve in the Armed Forces but will not be assigned training or duties that include using weapons.

ALTERNATIVE SERVICE
Conscientious Objectors opposed to serving in the military will be placed in the Selective Service Alternative Service Program. This program attempts to match COs with local employers. Many types of jobs are available, however the job must be deemed to make a meaningful contribution to the maintenance of the national health, safety, and interest. Examples of Alternative Service are jobs in:

conservation

caring for the very young or very old

education

health care

Length of service in the program will equal the amount of time a man would have served in the military, usually 24 months. *
sss.gov/FSconsobj.htm
(more information is at the link)

What if you feel this is an unjust war, should you still serve if required, does that mean you are supporting the war even if you think it is wrong?

I am fairly certain that many men who served in the Vietnam War did not support it, but they served when drafted.

 

[robwar]

In the US, the draft board will want to see evidence that your views have influenced your life for a period of time before filing for CO status. But, yes, the criteria for granting CO status are hazy. Whether someone qualifies, or doesn’t qualify, is at the discretion of the draft board.

Here is a bit of information from the US Selective Service about CO status:

*WHO QUALIFIES?
Beliefs which qualify a registrant for CO status may be religious in nature, but don’t have to be. Beliefs may be moral or ethical; however, a man’s reasons for not wanting to participate in a war must not be based on politics, expediency, or self-interest. In general, the man’s lifestyle prior to making his claim must reflect his current claims.

SERVICE AS A CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR
Two types of service are available to conscientious objectors, and the type assigned is determined by the individual’s specific beliefs. The person who is opposed to any form of military service will be assigned to Alternative Service - described below. The person whose beliefs allow him to serve in the military but in a noncombatant capacity will serve in the Armed Forces but will not be assigned training or duties that include using weapons.

ALTERNATIVE SERVICE
Conscientious Objectors opposed to serving in the military will be placed in the Selective Service Alternative Service Program. This program attempts to match COs with local employers. Many types of jobs are available, however the job must be deemed to make a meaningful contribution to the maintenance of the national health, safety, and interest. Examples of Alternative Service are jobs in:

conservation

caring for the very young or very old

education

health care

Length of service in the program will equal the amount of time a man would have served in the military, usually 24 months. *
sss.gov/FSconsobj.htm
(more information is at the link)

I am fairly certain that many men who served in the Vietnam War did not support it, but they served when drafted.

thank-you for your thoughtful response and info. I appreciate it.

 

[livingwordunity]

The cynic in me says they’re milking the abortion issue to secure the Christian vote

And that’s not better than the other party being all out for abortion and trying to secure the atheist vote? The cynic in me says that you are trying to find fault where none exists. If someone does good why do you make that the reason to accuse them of being evil? To me it makes no sense to do this.

 

[robwar]

please stay on topic which is about military service and religious exemption. It isn’t about abortion or same sex marriage. Thank-you !