Where state are souls in until the resurrection at the end?

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Fred_Flintstone

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I was given these bible verses to show that our souls will not be in heaven, or anywhere after we die until Jesus returns and there is the resurrection on the last day:

Ecc 9: 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.

Psalms 146:3-4 3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. 4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.

Ecc 3:19 - For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity
20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust

I believe the Church’s teaching is that we will be judged immediately and end up in hell, or heaven, with perhaps a stop in purgatory.

What would you respond to those bible verses as showing the soul cannot think or hear prayers until the end?
 
These verses are not directly dealing with the afterlife, but rather with the cares and responsibilities of the living. Those who are alive have to do what is right while they have the chance, while those who are dead can no longer do anything more beyond what they did on earth–that kind of thinking.

It is a big mistake to take verses out of context of the times in which they were written, and more importantly, of what the author was trying to convey to his readers. Good Bible scholarship doesn’t come by making assumptions and then finding verses to back them up. It comes from understanding the teaching of the Church, which is the teaching of Christ himself, and reading the Scriptures in the light of that understanding.
 
Divine revelation concerning the afterlife was gradual. Although there are hints in the protocanonical Old Testament books of an afterlife, such as when Samuel, after his death, prophesied the downfall of King Saul (1 Sam 28:15-19) and when Elisha, after his death, raise a dead man to life (2 Kings 13:21), divine revelation about the afterlife become clearer in the pre-Christian deuterocanonical Old Testament, such as in Judas Maccabeus’ vision of dead Onias and dead Jeremiah praying for the whole Jewish community (2 Maccabees 15:12-14). Other deuterocanonical verses relating to the afterlife include, Daniel 3:86, Sirach 46:20, and Sirach 48:14.

As one might expect, it is Jesus Christ himself who gives the clearest divine revelation about the afterlife in Luke 16:19-31, where he describes the afterlife of the dead rich man in fiery torment and dead Lazarus in the comfort of Abraham’s bosom. Note that even the dead rich man in fiery torment intercedes for his living brothers.
 
Your post (OP) sounds like JW teaching. One passage I think makes it very clear what the Catholic Church teaches is true and that is when Jesus died he went to the “souls in prison” to tell them the good news. Now if the dead know nothing that verse would make no sense at all. Since the gates of heaven were not opened until his death they were conscious all that time and were able to receive the good news. Also a good verse for proving the existence of purgatory for they weren’t in hell and heaven was closed.

Rick
 
In 2 Corinthians 5:8, Paul, speaking of his own death says he would “rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.”

The quotations you show are all from the OT. In Jesus’ day, not all Jews believed in the Resurrection or even in an afterlife of reward.

Jesus promises the thief on the cross that he will be with Him that very day “in paradise.” Whether you believe that paradise is heaven or someplace else – the Lord would not promise something like that if the poor bloke would have no means of appreciating it when he got there!
 
Hi Fred,

There are many instances where the souls of the dead are shown to be conscious and even to communicate.

In the parable of Lazarus, there is a conversation between the rich man who died and Abraham.

In Jesus’ transfiguration, Moses and Isaiah speak with Jesus.

In the book of Revelation, the dead, specifically the martyrs, are shown praising God and the Lamb. See chapter 7, verses 9ff.

Verbum
 
Fred_Flintstone said:
I was given these bible verses to show that our souls will not be in heaven, or anywhere after we die until Jesus returns and there is the resurrection on the last day:

Ecc 9: 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.

Psalms 146:3-4 3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. 4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.

Ecc 3:19 - For there is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity
20 All are going to one place. They have all come to be from the dust

I believe the Church’s teaching is that we will be judged immediately and end up in hell, or heaven, with perhaps a stop in purgatory.

What would you respond to those bible verses as showing the soul cannot think or hear prayers until the end?
Click to expand...
Tell them you are Catholic, not SDA.

Oh! Also:

Those who are absent from the body are alive in Christ.
 
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