J
Jimmy_B
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Where the crusades justified and are we involved in a world wide crusade today?
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Where the crusades justified and are we involved in a world wide crusade today?
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F
FightingFat
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I think the problem with this kind of question is that we tend to take a modern moral perspective on the issue. With the benefit of hindsight things seem very clear.
The term “crusades” covers a period from the 11th to the 13th centuries and numerous milatary campaigns against a broad spectrum of perceived threats from political enemies of the popes to groups that included Muslims, pagan Slavs, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars and Hussites.
The first crusade was called in response to the Seljuk Turks expansion into Anatolia (I’m going there in August) and the plea for help from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire. I’d say it was a response to Muslim aggression and expansionism so on the face of it, it would seem fairly justified.
The fourth crusade was hi jacked by Doge Enrico Dandolo and the Venetians who ended up -sacking Constantinople, still to this day the main cause of the East/ West schism. This was not a justifiable thing, I’m sure you will agree!
So there you go. To say “Are the crusades justifiable?” is too general a question. We are not involved in a world wide crusade today either. We should be on a mission to spread love and peace and the message of the Gospel.
The term “crusades” covers a period from the 11th to the 13th centuries and numerous milatary campaigns against a broad spectrum of perceived threats from political enemies of the popes to groups that included Muslims, pagan Slavs, Russian and Greek Orthodox Christians, Mongols, Cathars and Hussites.
The first crusade was called in response to the Seljuk Turks expansion into Anatolia (I’m going there in August) and the plea for help from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire. I’d say it was a response to Muslim aggression and expansionism so on the face of it, it would seem fairly justified.
The fourth crusade was hi jacked by Doge Enrico Dandolo and the Venetians who ended up -sacking Constantinople, still to this day the main cause of the East/ West schism. This was not a justifiable thing, I’m sure you will agree!
So there you go. To say “Are the crusades justifiable?” is too general a question. We are not involved in a world wide crusade today either. We should be on a mission to spread love and peace and the message of the Gospel.
C
Chancellare
Guest
Sorry to differ in view but I see the opposite: It is the Christian Faith that is under persecution today in all parts of the world.
S
SoCalRC
Guest
I’d have to concur with FightingFat. Islam was the colosus at the time of the first crusade, so it could definately be argued that it was a Christian fight for survival. Some of the later crusades were counter productive and much shakier morally.
Today, Christianity is the dominent world religion and, of the percentage of the world that does practice Islam, the vast majority do not endorse violence or jihad.
The violence we have today seems more related to oil than ideology. For example, the House of Saud has put about $70B into extreme Wahabism (to basically keep the throne). So it should be no surprise that the 9/11 terrorists were overwhelmingly Saudi. But we need the oil, so the country funding terror and providing terrorists is still a “good friend”.
Such a good friend that we sell it large amounts of high tech weaponry. Arming an Islamic state to the teeth, while it gives big chunks of oil revenue from us to religious extremists, doesn’t seem to have a basis in Christianity. It is wholly pragmatic. So the violence related to it should probably not be viewed in purely religious terms.
Today, Christianity is the dominent world religion and, of the percentage of the world that does practice Islam, the vast majority do not endorse violence or jihad.
The violence we have today seems more related to oil than ideology. For example, the House of Saud has put about $70B into extreme Wahabism (to basically keep the throne). So it should be no surprise that the 9/11 terrorists were overwhelmingly Saudi. But we need the oil, so the country funding terror and providing terrorists is still a “good friend”.
Such a good friend that we sell it large amounts of high tech weaponry. Arming an Islamic state to the teeth, while it gives big chunks of oil revenue from us to religious extremists, doesn’t seem to have a basis in Christianity. It is wholly pragmatic. So the violence related to it should probably not be viewed in purely religious terms.
A
Al_Masetti
Guest
There were two sets of crusades: one set to the Middle East and one set to Spain. Both regions were under invasion.
The crusades to the Middle East numbered about ten. And were strung out over about 300 years or so. *
The forces of Islam went into the Holy Land around AD 650 or thereabouts. The first Crusade was around AD900 or thereabouts. Quite a time lag.
The forces of Islam went into Spain in AD711 [easy to remember] and were ejected back to North Africa in AD 1492 … representing a war of 781 years duration. During that time period the forces of Islam advanced up into France where they were turned around by Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours around AD 832 or thereabouts.
In addition, there were MAJOR battles at Lepanto around 1572 see the Catholic Answers book store for the CD of that battle ] and Vienna in the 1600’s. And a whole slew of other battles.
BUT, that’s not all. The Moors who were ejected from Spain and who took up residence in North Africa began using their small ships to prey on shipping in the Mediterranean and also raided coastal towns all over Europe to seize hostages and booty. The coastal areas were almost uninhabitable. That went on from 1500 until 1805 when the U.S. (from all the way across the Atlantic) and England decided they had had enough and sent in their military to do what they could. Admiral Nelson bombarded and the U.S. Marines landed. … the halls of
Tripoli …]
Finally around 1825, France, Spain, Italy and England occupied North Africa and ended the Barbary pirates and the Corsairs for once and for all. But peace only lasted until after WW2 … and trouble started all over again in the 1950’s … and we have had trouble ever since.
The End.
P.S. I have avoided the use of the word “jihad”… but “jihad” fits in there somewhere. Also avoided the use of the words: “Sunni”, “Shiite”, “Wahhabism”, and “dhimmis”.
Read “Energy Victory” by Robert Zubrin for a description of the missing details.*
The crusades to the Middle East numbered about ten. And were strung out over about 300 years or so. *
The forces of Islam went into the Holy Land around AD 650 or thereabouts. The first Crusade was around AD900 or thereabouts. Quite a time lag.
The forces of Islam went into Spain in AD711 [easy to remember] and were ejected back to North Africa in AD 1492 … representing a war of 781 years duration. During that time period the forces of Islam advanced up into France where they were turned around by Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours around AD 832 or thereabouts.
In addition, there were MAJOR battles at Lepanto around 1572 see the Catholic Answers book store for the CD of that battle ] and Vienna in the 1600’s. And a whole slew of other battles.
BUT, that’s not all. The Moors who were ejected from Spain and who took up residence in North Africa began using their small ships to prey on shipping in the Mediterranean and also raided coastal towns all over Europe to seize hostages and booty. The coastal areas were almost uninhabitable. That went on from 1500 until 1805 when the U.S. (from all the way across the Atlantic) and England decided they had had enough and sent in their military to do what they could. Admiral Nelson bombarded and the U.S. Marines landed. … the halls of
Tripoli …]
Finally around 1825, France, Spain, Italy and England occupied North Africa and ended the Barbary pirates and the Corsairs for once and for all. But peace only lasted until after WW2 … and trouble started all over again in the 1950’s … and we have had trouble ever since.
The End.
P.S. I have avoided the use of the word “jihad”… but “jihad” fits in there somewhere. Also avoided the use of the words: “Sunni”, “Shiite”, “Wahhabism”, and “dhimmis”.
Read “Energy Victory” by Robert Zubrin for a description of the missing details.*
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