Where to go - what to expect?

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MaryAnne77

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I am interested in attending a TLM. Our parish is very progressive, so I’m curious if there is something to be gained/learned by a more traditional approach. I do not know much about Traditionalsim, however, so I’m hoping you can help.

There are no TLMs in my city, but there is one in a parish about 25 minutes away. They hold one TLM on Sunday - the rest are regular Masses. The TLM is listed on the Archdiocese’s website, so I’m sure it’s legitimate.

There is another option… An “independent” group meets at a local, secular funeral home on Sunday for Mass. This Mass is not listed in the directory of Tridentine Masses on my archdiocese’s website, so I am wondering if it is even valid. Here is a link to this group’s website:
www.olhc.us

Would attending this Mass be valid? What is the difference between these options?

Also - if I attend - what should I expect, as someone who has only ever attended the post Vatican II Mass. I don’t want to stick out like a sore thumb or be disrespectful to the customs. Should I call ahead? Is it invite only?

Thanks!
 
well the fact the Fr Nicholas Gruner is speaking there is a huge red flag, better call the diocese and find out if this parish is fully in communion with the Catholic Church and has permission to celebrate the Tridentine Rite (this is not the EF it is an older rite).

you can certainly attend either, but whether or not they meet your obligation depends on what your own bishop has ruled.

My best advice for anyone attending the Latin Mass, or for that matter in any rite or language with which they are unfamiliar, is to simply observe, look, listen, experience, the first time.
 
puzzleannie said:
well the fact the Fr Nicholas Gruner is speaking there is a huge red flag, better call the diocese and find out if this parish is fully in communion with the Catholic Church and has permission to celebrate the Tridentine Rite (this is not the EF it is an older rite).

you can certainly attend either, but whether or not they meet your obligation depends on what your own bishop has ruled.

My best advice for anyone attending the Latin Mass, or for that matter in any rite or language with which they are unfamiliar, is to simply observe, look, listen, experience, the first time.
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You’re talking about the one that’s at the funeral home - right? Not the one that’s at a local parish? Who is Fr. Gruner?

I’m assuming the one at the parish will be legitimate and meet my Sunday obligation - right? It is listed on the Archdiocese’s website under “Where to find a Tridentine Mass” - the other (funeral home) one is not.

If I go and just sit in the back to observe - do I take communion or forego it?
 
MaryAnne77 said:
You’re talking about the one that’s at the funeral home - right? Not the one that’s at a local parish? Who is Fr. Gruner?

I’m assuming the one at the parish will be legitimate and meet my Sunday obligation - right? It is listed on the Archdiocese’s website under “Where to find a Tridentine Mass” - the other (funeral home) one is not.

If I go and just sit in the back to observe - do I take communion or forego it?
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I’d say try the diocesan traditional Mass. Sit in the back half, so you can follow other people for kneeling, standing, etc.

Receive communion if you are in the state of grace (have you made a good confession recently?). At traditional Masses people kneel and receive Holy Communion on the tongue. If you haven’t done this before, don’t panic. I’m sure at the diocesan traditional Mass the priest sees a lot of people who are new to it. Just follow the other communicants and the priest will make it happen.

Don’t expect to be able to follow everything and know what’s going on at all times the first time you go. It takes a little while to get used to how things work in the traditional Mass.
 
Fr. Perez says the Mass you’re talking about in Garden Grove at the funeral home. He is an independent priest and not associated with any other group or organization. He has been there for over 10 years. However, there is a recognized Latin Mass at St Marys by the Sea in Huntington Beach which is not far from you at all. You can look at their web site for the Mass time. I think that it is every Sunday at 12pm.
 
greenmoira said:
Fr. Perez says the Mass you’re talking about in Garden Grove at the funeral home. He is an independent priest and not associated with any other group or organization. He has been there for over 10 years. However, there is a recognized Latin Mass at St Marys by the Sea in Huntington Beach which is not far from you at all. You can look at their web site for the Mass time. I think that it is every Sunday at 12pm.
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I’m actually in Ventura County. The funeral home Mass is in Ventura, as is the one at Mission San Buenaventura.

Is an independent priest one who has not been to seminary and is not recognized by The Church as a valid priest? Or, was he once in communion? Would his Mass be invalid? I’m wondering why, if there is a LM at the mission, another group feels the need to have (a conflicting - both are at the same time) Mass in the chapel at a funeral home.

Thank you all for your help!
 
MaryAnne77 said:
You’re talking about the one that’s at the funeral home - right? Not the one that’s at a local parish? Who is Fr. Gruner?

I’t?
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I have no idea I followed the link in OP. Fr Gruner is a dissident priest. What does the diocesan website say about the parishes you are considering?
 
MaryAnne77 said:
I’m actually in Ventura County. The funeral home Mass is in Ventura, as is the one at Mission San Buenaventura.

Is an independent priest one who has not been to seminary and is not recognized by The Church as a valid priest? Or, was he once in communion? Would his Mass be invalid? I’m wondering why, if there is a LM at the mission, another group feels the need to have (a conflicting - both are at the same time) Mass in the chapel at a funeral home.

Thank you all for your help!
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“Independent” priests are all over the board. Some have been to seminary, though my sense is that most today have not. If ordained by valid bishops (including schismatic bishops operating illegally), then their ordinations are valid, though illicit. That means their Masses, too, are valid but illicit.

It is important to point out what this means. Contrary to what ordinary usage might seem to imply, “valid” in this sense does not mean “perfectly fine, just as good as anything else.” Imagine (and your imagination doesn’t have to wander too far) that a priest commits child abuse and is suspended and ultimately defrocked by the Church. He then sets up his own schismatic “Catholic-Christian” worship center, and as a result he is officially excommunicated. But he says Mass anyway. Is it valid? Believe it or not, yes, because the priesthood is an irrevocable change on the soul, and even official laicization and excommunication do not blot it out. It’s a valid Mass. Does “it’s valid” then mean that Catholics are entitled to go to a Mass said by a defrocked, excommunicated, child-abusing priest? No.

As to your last question, there are a few reasons why a priest would set up an “independent” chapel to say the Latin Mass when there is a recognized Latin Mass nearby. Some were never really part of the church, and like the idea of setting up their own cult without having to answer to any bishop or do anything they don’t feel like. Others are sedevacantists, and believe that the entire Church is full of heretics, except for themselves and a handful of their fellow-travelers.
 
I agree with the good advice that wsxys gave. It would be best to go the the diocesan Latin Mass, which is legitimate. I’ve visited the Mission San Buenaventura, but not attended any Mass there. It’s a lovely, really old church, built in the 1700’s, one of the missions started by Fr. Junipero Serra.

If you ever happen to visit San Juan Capistrano, there’s also a Latin Mass offfered there in the beautiful basillica (also started by Fr. Serra).
 
MarkThompson said:
“Independent” priests are all over the board. Some have been to seminary, though my sense is that most today have not. If ordained by valid bishops (including schismatic bishops operating illegally), then their ordinations are valid, though illicit. That means their Masses, too, are valid but illicit.

It is important to point out what this means. Contrary to what ordinary usage might seem to imply, “valid” in this sense does not mean “perfectly fine, just as good as anything else.” Imagine (and your imagination doesn’t have to wander too far) that a priest commits child abuse and is suspended and ultimately defrocked by the Church. He then sets up his own schismatic “Catholic-Christian” worship center, and as a result he is officially excommunicated. But he says Mass anyway. Is it valid? Believe it or not, yes, because the priesthood is an irrevocable change on the soul, and even official laicization and excommunication do not blot it out. It’s a valid Mass. Does “it’s valid” then mean that Catholics are entitled to go to a Mass said by a defrocked, excommunicated, child-abusing priest? No.

As to your last question, there are a few reasons why a priest would set up an “independent” chapel to say the Latin Mass when there is a recognized Latin Mass nearby. Some were never really part of the church, and like the idea of setting up their own cult without having to answer to any bishop or do anything they don’t feel like. Others are sedevacantists, and believe that the entire Church is full of heretics, except for themselves and a handful of their fellow-travelers.
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Ah - I see now. Thank you for explaining things so clearly. I am looking on my diocesan website, and it does not mention this “unaffiliated” Mass… So I’m thinking it’s a group of sedevacantists or possibly another fringe group that is not in communion with Rome. Probably best to avoid it!

Do most people here attend Latin masses that are approved by the diocese?
 
MaryAnn77: I personally know of Fr Perez but I am no longer living in Calif. Fr Perez took over the Mass locations from Fr Frederick Schell when he was very elderly and unable to continue to drive the freeways of California. Fr Schell primarily said Mass in Chatsworth and occasionally in Ventura at a funeral home. The Latin Mass was not being said anywhere in the LA vicinity - I’m going back to the 1970s now. It was not permitted by bishops. I am not starting an argument with anyone over the licitness or illicitness of a priest saying the Latin Mass without a bishop’s permission. In order to understand that era in the Church you had to be there. I will take issue with posters making the assumption that an independent priest who says the LM has not gone through seminary and/or is not ordained. That is slander and must be addressed. Fr Schell was a retired Jesuit in good standing in the LA archdiocese until he began offering the LM. I’m not sure where Fr Perez was ordained but I know that it was performed by a diocesan bishop.

I do think that your safest oppotunity for attending the EF would be to go to the Mass at San Buenaventura Mission. I attended Mass there several times when I was in Ventura. I don’t know what priest is saying the EF there now - I’ve been out of Calif for 11 years. Hope this helps you. God bless you.
 
greenmoira said:
MaryAnn77: I personally know of Fr Perez but I am no longer living in Calif. Fr Perez took over the Mass locations from Fr Frederick Schell when he was very elderly and unable to continue to drive the freeways of California. Fr Schell primarily said Mass in Chatsworth and occasionally in Ventura at a funeral home. The Latin Mass was not being said anywhere in the LA vicinity - I’m going back to the 1970s now. It was not permitted by bishops. I am not starting an argument with anyone over the licitness or illicitness of a priest saying the Latin Mass without a bishop’s permission. In order to understand that era in the Church you had to be there. I will take issue with posters making the assumption that an independent priest who says the LM has not gone through seminary and/or is not ordained. That is slander and must be addressed. Fr Schell was a retired Jesuit in good standing in the LA archdiocese until he began offering the LM. I’m not sure where Fr Perez was ordained but I know that it was performed by a diocesan bishop.

I do think that your safest oppotunity for attending the EF would be to go to the Mass at San Buenaventura Mission. I attended Mass there several times when I was in Ventura. I don’t know what priest is saying the EF there now - I’ve been out of Calif for 11 years. Hope this helps you. God bless you.
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Why do you say that the assumption that a so called independent priest is not ordained and/or has not being in a seminary could be slanderous? Would you trust the statements of a priest that operates in that mode? Would you trust a priest that even if validly ordained would completely reject his vows of obedience to the Bishop? Integrity of character is essential for priests too.
 
Response to Cristiano: I was replying to MaryAnn77. Since she specifically mentioned Fr Perez and I have some knowledge of his history, I thought that it wass necessary to counter inappropriate comments made about priests. I was not starting a ruckus about licit or illicit Masses or the possible irregular status of some priests. That topic has been discussed in detail by many, many posters. I used the word “slander” because that is what was being done.
 
You need to check out the following important website and youtube channel. It explains what has really happened to the Catholic Church after Vatican II; the real problems with the New Mass; the whole truth on Fatima; and much more traditional Catholic issues. Their “New Mass” section will give you advice on where one can attend a valid Mass, but what is more important is that you hold the Catholic Faith whole and undefiled, which you will learn through the material on the website and in their videos.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/ youtube.com/user/mhfm1
 
Mario_Chavez said:
You need to check out the following important website and youtube channel. It explains what has really happened to the Catholic Church after Vatican II; the real problems with the New Mass; the whole truth on Fatima; and much more traditional Catholic issues. Their “New Mass” section will give you advice on where one can attend a valid Mass, but what is more important is that you hold the Catholic Faith whole and undefiled, which you will learn through the material on the website and in their videos.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/ youtube.com/user/mhfm1
Click to expand...
Did you just join to market that site?
 
MaryAnne77 said:
I am interested in attending a TLM. Our parish is very progressive, so I’m curious if there is something to be gained/learned by a more traditional approach. I do not know much about Traditionalsim, however, so I’m hoping you can help.

There are no TLMs in my city, but there is one in a parish about 25 minutes away. They hold one TLM on Sunday - the rest are regular Masses. The TLM is listed on the Archdiocese’s website, so I’m sure it’s legitimate.

There is another option… An “independent” group meets at a local, secular funeral home on Sunday for Mass. This Mass is not listed in the directory of Tridentine Masses on my archdiocese’s website, so I am wondering if it is even valid. Here is a link to this group’s website:
www.olhc.us

Would attending this Mass be valid? What is the difference between these options?

Also - if I attend - what should I expect, as someone who has only ever attended the post Vatican II Mass. I don’t want to stick out like a sore thumb or be disrespectful to the customs. Should I call ahead? Is it invite only?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I suggest attending the one that’s in communion with the Church…

as for the Latin Mass, - except something very reverent, quiet, (it’s really beautiful :)) but for many people it is something to get used to after the Novus Ordo, - it helps having a missal… just follow what people are doing and pray along, - if you don’t have a missal, just observe and try to pray… don’t get discouraged about all the Latin, etc - people generally always use the translation in the missal and the responses are always the same and are learned with time. Hope you enjoy it 🙂 God bless.

ps: there are some differences like when people kneel, etc, but just follow what others are doing. Communion is received kneeling, on the tongue only, and you don’t say “amen” just make the sign of the Cross after.
 
TrueLight said:
Did you just join to market that site?
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Isn’t it embarrassing when even an RCIA candidate can spot something that is not really part of the Church while some people that are supposed to be Catholic in good standing with the Church established by Christ go around willingly or unwillingly distributing propaganda meant to destroy the Church?
 
Anyone posting links to and encouraging Catholics to read information on sedevacantism or posts that offend the Church will be banned without notice. If you have questions, please ask via PM.
 
Not really sure what happened here. Hope I didn’t do something wrong…

Anyway, thank you everyone for the advice. I will be attending the LM at the mission next weekend!
 
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