Where was Peter buried?

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Try this to understand Oral Tradition.

scripturecatholic.com/oral_tradition.html

The main one for me being from T2 Thess.
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.
One of the first statements I read in the article (highlighted for me to read). It stated that faith came “from hearing”, I agree on this part of the statement, however the second part of this statement (should you care to read it) say’s, and I quote, “and hearing by the Word of God”. How does one go about “hearing”, or finding this oral traditrion. Is it written down somewhere, if it is not written down somewhere, I can’t imagine how many times it has been changed, having been around all these years. Ralph
 
You believe the bible is the inspired word of God - because? Ralph
Ralphy-

This is a really, really important question that you have asked. 👍

There are usually two answers. The Protestant will answer that he believes that the Bible is the inspired Word of God because, “God told me” or some such variation. The Catholic SHOULD answer, “Because an infallible Church declares it.”

As you can see, these are radically different positions, and they should be examined carefully. (The Protestant position, btw, is similar to the Mormon “burning in the bosom” regarding the Book of Mormon.)

I’m going to present the short version (which will still look lengthy) and encourage you to read the full article referenced…here we go:

Proving Inspiration
catholic.com/library/Proving_Inspiration.asp

The Catholic method of proving the Bible to be inspired is this: The Bible is initially approached as any other ancient work. It is not, at first, presumed to be inspired. From textual criticism we are able to conclude that we have a text the accuracy of which is more certain than the accuracy of any other ancient work.

An Accurate Text

Sir Frederic Kenyon, in The Story of the Bible, notes that “For all the works of classical antiquity we have to depend on manuscripts written long after their original composition. The author who is the best case in this respect is Virgil, yet the earliest manuscript of Virgil that we now possess was written some 350 years after his death. For all other classical writers, the interval between the date of the author and the earliest extant manuscript of his works is much greater. For Livy it is about 500 years, for Horace 900, for most of Plato 1,300, for Euripides 1,600.” Yet no one seriously disputes that we have accurate copies of the works of these writers. However, in the case of the New Testament we have parts of manuscripts dating from the first and early second centuries, only a few decades after the works were penned.

Not only are the biblical manuscripts that we have older than those for classical authors, we have in sheer numbers far more manuscripts from which to work. Some are whole books of the Bible, others fragments of just a few words, but there are literally thousands of manuscripts in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Coptic, Syriac, and other languages. This means that we can be sure we have an authentic text, and we can work from it with confidence.

The Bible as Historical Truth

Next we take a look at what the Bible, considered merely as a history, tells us, focusing particularly on the New Testament, and more specifically the Gospels. We examine the account contained therein of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection.

Using what is in the Gospels themselves and what we find in extra-biblical writings from the early centuries, together with what we know of human nature (and what we can otherwise, from natural reason alone, know of divine nature), we conclude that either Jesus was just what he claimed to be—God—or he was crazy. (The one thing we know he could not have been was merely a good man who was not God, since no merely good man would make the claims he made.)

We are able to eliminate the possibility of his being a madman not just from what he said but from what his followers did after his death. Many critics of the Gospel accounts of the resurrection claim that Christ did not truly rise, that his followers took his body from the tomb and then proclaimed him risen from the dead. According to these critics, the resurrection was nothing more than a hoax. Devising a hoax to glorify a friend and mentor is one thing, but you do not find people dying for a hoax, at least not one from which they derive no benefit. Certainly if Christ had not risen his disciples would not have died horrible deaths affirming the reality and truth of the resurrection. The result of this line of reasoning is that we must conclude that Jesus indeed rose from the dead. Consequently, his claims concerning himself—including his claim to be God—have credibility. He meant what he said and did what he said he would do.

Further, Christ said he would found a Church. Both the Bible (still taken as *merely a historical *book, not yet as an inspired one) and other ancient works attest to the fact that Christ established a Church with the rudiments of what we see in the Catholic Church today—papacy, hierarchy, priesthood, sacraments, and teaching authority.

We have thus taken the material and purely historically concluded that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. Because of his Resurrection we have reason to take seriously his claims concerning the Church, including its authority to teach in his name.

This Catholic Church tells us the Bible is inspired, and we can take the Church’s word for it precisely because the Church is infallible. Only after having been told by a properly constituted authority—that is, one established by God to assure us of the truth concerning matters of faith—that the Bible is inspired can we reasonably begin to use it as an inspired book.

A Spiral Argument

Note that this is not a circular argument. We are not basing the inspiration of the Bible on the Church’s infallibility and the Church’s infallibility on the word of an inspired Bible. That indeed would be a circular argument! What we have is really a spiral argument. On the first level we argue to the reliability of the Bible insofar as it is history. From that we conclude that an infallible Church was founded. And then we take the word of that infallible Church that the Bible is inspired. This is not a circular argument because the final conclusion (the Bible is inspired) is not simply a restatement of its initial finding (the Bible is historically reliable), and its initial finding (the Bible is historically reliable) is in no way based on the final conclusion (the Bible is inspired). What we have demonstrated is that without the existence of the Church, we could never know whether the Bible is inspired.

The advantages of the Catholic approach are two: First, the inspiration is really proved, not just “felt.” Second, the main fact behind the proof—the reality of an infallible, teaching Church—leads one naturally to an answer to the problem that troubled the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:30-31): How is one to know which interpretations are correct? The same Church that authenticates the Bible, that attests to its inspiration, is the authority established by Christ to interpret his word.
 
I am not sure where you get the idea that it was refering to the old testament. My bible says “ALL” scripture, including the new testament. Ralph
You’re right, Ralph.

The NATURE of anything that is is authentic scripture is that it is divinely inspired.

This applies to both the OT and the NT regardless of whether that scripture was written before or after 2 Timothy.

Of course, the passage in 2 Timothy does not claim that ONLY scripture is the infallible Word of God or the “sole rule of faith” for the believer…but that is for another thread. 😉
 
I am not sure where you get the idea that it was refering to the old testament. My bible says “ALL” scripture, including the new testament. Ralph
The New Testament did not exist when Paul wrote that letter to Timothy.
 
mchale;5567908:
You believe the bible is the inspired word of God - because? Ralph
Well it has been addressed to some degree by others, but I will try to explain why I personally believe the Bible is the inspired word of God…

The early Christian Church was lead by people who had known Jesus directly (The apostles and others amongst his disciples). For decades before the gospels were written down and centuries before they and the epistles had been collected into the New Testament, they were telling the other early Christians about what Jesus said and did.

The early church, therefore, did not have the New Testament, but it does not mean that they did not know about what Jesus said and did because of what the apostles had taught them. Now as the years went buy, the evangelists, but also others started writing accounts of Jesus’s life, and also there were many letters that were written that claimed to be written by the apostles or other early Church leaders. Ultimately, how was the early Church communities to know which books were true accounts of Jesus and which were fake? They knew because they already knew so much about Jesus from the oral teachings (now referred to as Tradition by the Church) that they had inherited from the Apostles.

Therefore, I personally believe that the New Testament is the inspired word of God because it was verified as such by people who learned the details from people who had been there.

–
Bill
 
Can you prove that St. Peter has no feet before they buried him? I will ask my brother in law which he knows about St. Peter well. I knew he was hung upside down and died from blood flow through the head. God bless him.
 
I am not sure where you get the idea that it was refering to the old testament. My bible says “ALL” scripture, including the new testament. Ralph
The preceding verse actually,

2 Tim 3:15
“15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.”

Most of the New Testament wasn’t written at the time of Timothy’s childhood, and the Old Testament and New Testamen writings weren’t put together into our Bible until the fourth century so Timothy wouldn’t know which scriptures were inspired.
 
Well, let me say that this is very interesting subject. I know of course by studying scripture that there is nothing to indicate that Peter ever was in Rome. This belief that Peter was in Rome of course comes from the RCC, and is the very foundation of their hierarchy teaching regarding the popes of Rome. This is just one of the RCC teachings based on tradition which RC believe and follow and cannot be verified by the bible. Ralph
Hi, Ralphy. 1] it’s not even necessary for Peter to have ever been in Rome. His status as chief of the R.C organization was given to him personally, not to the city. Actually, the government of the R.C. church is where the Pope is. But any organization of men requires a visible head. All protestant churches have their presidents and so do the JW and the LTS. Jesus is the rock on which rests our faith. Peter [and his rightful successors, the popes] are the rock on where rests our organization, our president. God bless.
 
Hi, Ralphy. 1] it’s not even necessary for Peter to have ever been in Rome. His status as chief of the R.C organization was given to him personally, not to the city. Actually, the government of the R.C. church is where the Pope is. But any organization of men requires a visible head. All protestant churches have their presidents and so do the JW and the LTS. Jesus is the rock on which rests our faith. Peter [and his rightful successors, the popes] are the rock on where rests our organization, our president. God bless.
I have a pastor who preaches in our church, preaching the word of God from the Bible. The oranization I belong to rests on Jesus Christ, we have no hierarchy, Christ is our “president”, and may God bless you also. Ralph
 
For what you say I gather yours is a single-church denomination, i.e., you’re not Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. just a free evangelical church strictly based on the Bible. But you understand the Bible according to what your pastor says. The moment you disagree with him you automatically become another evangelical church. A one-man church. Or an n-men church, if you manage to get n men to follow you. Now, if we see JW’s, they also claim they follow the Bible. And just see what a lot of strange ideas they’ve got. LDS’s claim the Bible authorizes their Book of Mormon. Historically, Sola Scriptura has never worked. It takes two witnesses, as Jesus said. [John 8, 17 ” It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true”]. – In the RCC, it is the Bible and the Tradition, or if we wish to mention men, the hierographer [the inspired man who wrote a Bible book] and the Pope, who acts under strict authority of God Himself Mattew 16, 19 “whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” and Luke 22,32 ‘I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren’. So a Catholic can rest assured he is in the right path. The Word of God says it so, and God cannot err or deceive. God bless your Church and make it fructify even if it does not agree in every point with the RCC.
 
For what you say I gather yours is a single-church denomination, i.e., you’re not Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. just a free evangelical church strictly based on the Bible. But you understand the Bible according to what your pastor says. The moment you disagree with him you automatically become another evangelical church. A one-man church. Or an n-men church, if you manage to get n men to follow you. Now, if we see JW’s, they also claim they follow the Bible. And just see what a lot of strange ideas they’ve got. LDS’s claim the Bible authorizes their Book of Mormon. Historically, Sola Scriptura has never worked. It takes two witnesses, as Jesus said. [John 8, 17 ” It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true”]. – In the RCC, it is the Bible and the Tradition, or if we wish to mention men, the hierographer [the inspired man who wrote a Bible book] and the Pope, who acts under strict authority of God Himself [Mattew 16, 19 “whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” and Luke 22,32 ‘I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren’. So a Catholic can rest assured he is in the right path. The Word of God says it so, and God cannot err or deceive. God bless your Church and make it fructify even if it does not agree in every point with the RCC.
By the way, we are all under the strict authority of God, God has no respect of persons, even if you are the pope, “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” Romans 3:23. Ralph
[/QUOTE]
 
God has no respect of persons, even if you are the pope,
What do you mean by this Ralphy ? Are you suggesting Christ didn’t highly value his chosen Apostles, or his mother & father … or any convert who is obedient to him ?
 
One of the first statements I read in the article (highlighted for me to read). It stated that faith came “from hearing”, I agree on this part of the statement, however the second part of this statement (should you care to read it) say’s, and I quote, “and hearing by the Word of God”. How does one go about “hearing”, or finding this oral traditrion. Is it written down somewhere, if it is not written down somewhere, I can’t imagine how many times it has been changed, having been around all these years. Ralph
That was why Christ founded the Church to be the Pillar and Foundation of truth to safeguard the tradition. The first Christians all “heard” the gospel and later letters and ideas were written. But the faith was transmitted entirely orally for a quite while until the Church started to record things. One of the earliest documents we have besides the New Testament selections is the Didache.
 
I have a pastor who preaches in our church, preaching the word of God from the Bible. The oranization I belong to rests on Jesus Christ, we have no hierarchy, Christ is our “president”, and may God bless you also. Ralph
How 'bout linking us up!!

Does your church or group have a public forum for Catholics to visit and have a look at your doctrine, especially moral doctrine?
 
Well, let me say that this is very interesting subject. I know of course by studying scripture that there is nothing to indicate that Peter ever was in Rome. This belief that Peter was in Rome of course comes from the RCC, and is the very foundation of their hierarchy teaching regarding the popes of Rome. This is just one of the RCC teachings based on tradition which RC believe and follow and cannot be verified by the bible. Ralph
When the Catholic Church set the canon of the Bible, it was not based on the Bible itself but on Tradition, now if the Church will abandon Tradition, it is abandoning the Bible, Christianity will crumble. Why do Protestants rely solely on the Bible that was compiled upon Tradition?Bible + Tradition puts the Christian belief in full circle of Truth.
 
What do you mean by this Ralphy ? Are you suggesting Christ didn’t highly value his chosen Apostles, or his mother & father … or any convert who is obedient to him ?
You will find this quote in Romans 2:11, but I suggest that you read a few verses befor and after that verse. Everyone is equal at the foot of the cross, no one is better than the other person, regardless of his or her position. We are all sinners and in need of salvation. We will be saved only through the blood of Christ,there is no other way regardless of what we do or how hard we try. God loves us all, but not all will turn to Him to accept His free gift of salvation. Ralph
 
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