Where would you draw the line?

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seabird3579

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All right here’s Situation Number One:

You are a lifelong Catholic who loves your Faith, OR your are a Convert or Revert who has come to love the Catholic Faith. You have studied, you have searched, you realize now what a “Pearl of Great Price” you have. And, you know that you will serve God, He is number one in your life. Everything else is second, third and fourth. God is Number One.

Here is Situation Number Two:

It is now the year Two Thousand and …; the Supreme Court has just issued a “decision” declaring that “all things Catholic” are illegal to be practiced in the U.S. For example, no Masses, sacraments, rosaries – and schools have been ordered closed. Priests are informed that they will only teach what the “State” says they will teach if they wish to avoid imprisonment.

Question: What is your personal response? How will you conduct yourself? How will you lead your family to respond to this new “decision”?

This is all hypothetical but I’m very interested to Hear the responses.
 
We often don’t know the truth of ourselves until we find ourselves in situations which seem unthinkable. I enjoy pondering hypothetical questions like this and wondering how I really would act.

I would like to think that I would continue to live my faith, attend Mass, either openly or underground as needed, pray the Rosary, etc. However, when I think of the repercussions of that for my family, I must honestly question if I do place God ahead of my family and might capitulate in order to be with and watch over my family.

There are times when I thought a little less of Peter for denying Our Lord as he did, yet when I watched The Passion of the Christ for the first time, it came to me that I very probably would have done the same in his shoes.

If the authorities were rounding Catholics up, how would I act? I hope I would stand up for my faith, but I admit there is a good chance I would be silent.
 
I would pray for the Church, that I may stay in a state of grace, and that I- and others- have the strength to keep- and, if need be, defend- the Faith. I would also pray that I and others would have access to the Sacraments.
 
I would still go to Church and force them to arrest me because laws like that were meant to be broken. I am never going to stop practicing my faith.👍
 
A long time ago, there was a man who was a captive and he would pray in his home every day. Then enemies of his (well, they didn’t like him, I wouldn’t say the feelings were mutual) got his behavior made illegal. After learning of this law, the man went home, opened his windows and prayed as always.

I’d pray for that courage.

It is definitely easier when you don’t know in advance. I remember a time when I was employed in a day care setting, and I was asked to wear a ribbon to support a particular political cause which I, in fact, opposed. I declined to wear the ribbon. Purely by coincidence I’m sure, my work went from being considered outstanding to worthy of being fired before the week was out.

I was later asked by a friend when relating this experience “Would you have worn the ribbon if you knew what would happen by refusing?” I had to be honest–I wasn’t quite as sure that I’d have stuck by my principles–it’d be so easy to rationalize it away as “just a bit of ribbon that doesn’t mean anything”, but that I certainly would hope that I’d have had as much courage if I’d known beforehand that refusal to wear the ribbon would cost me my job. Did my refusal to wear the ribbon change things re: the political cause? No–but I don’t know if I could live with myself if I had compromised my principles for a mere job.
 
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Lapsed:
I would like to think that I would continue to live my faith, attend Mass, either openly or underground as needed, pray the Rosary, etc. However, when I think of the repercussions of that for my family, I must honestly question if I do place God ahead of my family and might capitulate in order to be with and watch over my family.
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I was pondering a similiar situation the other night and I thought that I would of course be making decisions involving my whole family. As a parent and as an individual I would stand up for Christ and my Faith. I realized this “could have” grave consequences for myself and my children, but I would hope that I would anyway. For me, it’s like Peter said to Christ when He asked, “Will you also go?” …and Peter replied, to whom would we go, Lord, you have the words to Eternal Life.

One thing is for sure, it is possible trying times are ahead. It helps to imagine ourselves facing difficulties that could arise.

I look forward to the remaining responses.
 
In the second millenium… Laws as such were passed many times before, my country experienced those laws, as you’re all aware.

Secret Masses all 'round. Find them, and attend. I will defy such a regressive, oppressive and frankly unintelligent government.
 
These situations are not so far fetched.

They have actually happened in many countries.

A lot of “legends” have developed from the experiences of people building secret chapels in their houses with secret hiding places for clandestine priests. When the priests were found out and killed, legends about haunted houses evolved.

In some countries, special little pictures of Jesus were made up and all the people were lined up and forced, one at a time to STAMP their foot on Jesus’ picture. Anyone who refused was pulled out of line and beheaded on the spot. In one particular case, the Church more or less disappeared for 300 years.

300 years!

No so far fetched…
 
persecution can strengthen the faith of the people even if the institutional church in a country is damaged. the universal church prevails and the sufferings of Catholics in that country are united in Christ’s sacrifice celebrated continually in the universal church. here in Texas we are blessed of course with Catholics from Mexico but also from Viet Nam who are notable in comparison with many “homegrown” Catholics for the vigor and strength of their faith.
 
I hope and pray that I would have the courage to be true to Christ. I read the stories of some of the martyrs of the past, and I know that there are martyrs in this world right now who are standing strong for their faith and paying the ultimate price. What courage!

It’s interesting that you would post a thread like this…I have been plagued with a feeling lately that this may not be hypothetical in the not too distant future for those of us who presently live in saftey. Maybe in our lifetimes. I just get the strange feeling that we’re being prepared for a dark time like this. I look at what’s going on in the world, especially in our court systems, and I don’t doubt that it may be coming sooner than we could have ever imagined a few years ago.

God Bless,
Jeanette L
 
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goofyjim:
I would still go to Church and force them to arrest me because laws like that were meant to be broken. I am never going to stop practicing my faith.👍
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I agree lock me up let me die a martyr and march right into heaven…🙂
 
This isn’t far fetched at all.

I heard a story not too long ago on Relevant Radio about just this situation…people risked death by firing squad or other deathly consequence just in attending Mass. They knew that each time they went they were risking their very lives. And still they went, and one by one, the priests were picked off.

I don’t think this is far off for the US.

As it is, they are trying to legislate the sacrament of Confession, and I pray that our priests continue to follow God’s law and not the law the culture imposes upon them.

I believe our priests (at least the majority) will continue to be faithful, and this will underscore the battle. I believe that once this battle line is drawn, Catholics will be in the crosshairs, as though we’re not already…but much more so.

And I believe that they will soon equate us with terrorists for our failure to conform to US policy. How DARE we have a sacrament involving complete SECRECY!

If this happens, I pray I have the courage to continue to live my faith. Maybe I won’t go around wearing a crucifix, but I hope I have the courage not to deny Christ.

Martyrs did recieve graces to be able to withstand the tortures inflicted upon them…pray that we will, too.

I don’t think this is hypothetical…I think it’s going to happen right here in the good 'ol US of A.
 
And if some state decides to confiscate all Church properties to pay off some lawsuit, and if you host a Mass at your house, then would your house be confiscated?
 
Al Masetti:
And if some state decides to confiscate all Church properties to pay off some lawsuit, and if you host a Mass at your house, then would your house be confiscated?
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You know, I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I have to say I can see the above happening.

Gay “Marriage”, Confession…both are huge right now and the the Church is the last holdout and will not give in. Religious freedom really ISN’T here anymore…only those who are willing to go with the lowest common denominator have religious freedom…funny, though, how that seems to go along with whatever’s popular.

I don’t mean to be an extremist, only to underscore the idea that society still thinks it’s OK to defame the Catholic Church, and rather than getting better, it’s getting worse thanks to the politics of our current times.

There are other Christian religions which will also fall under this persecution as they refuse to “marry” homosexuals or change their beliefs to suite the state.

THe US government has already begun legislating religion and unless something drastic happens, this slippery slope is going to drop off real soon.

Wow! How negative am I? I think it’s time to find a happier thread! Sorry guys!
 
I live in a state in India which has an aggressive Hindu agenda. It is known for its riots in which mainly the Fundamentalist hindu parties targetted muslims. Christians are however looked down upon and viewed suspiciously. All kinds of rumours are cooked up about them There are cases where are priests are arrested under false charges of either ‘forcibly’ converting tribels or 'molesting ’ women. the courts ultimately throw these cases out, but enormous damage is done in the meantime. Now I am a government employee, all except for a miniscule minority, in my work place are Hindu’s who feed on this idea that this state is for Hindu’s and Christians are outsiders who owe their allegiance to Rome. Its difficult to openly and clearly proclaim that you are a christian, a catholic. believe me. I do it though, openly state what I am, but a feeling of uneasiness is always with you constantly. The rest of India is not like this, but this state is.
 
After reading all these posts I want to yell out "STOP

RUNNING" - we live in America, the good old USA, Americans

are not going to roll up and quit on the greatest land and government

in the world with a Constitution and system of government that

is based on Judeo Christian principles.

Don’t forget about the right to keep and bear arms - we are familiar

with fighting for freedom.

“In God We Trust” and we will keep the motto!
 
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grotto:
After reading all these posts I want to yell out "STOP

RUNNING" - we live in America, the good old USA, Americans

are not going to roll up and quit on the greatest land and government

in the world with a Constitution and system of government that

is based on Judeo Christian principles.

Don’t forget about the right to keep and bear arms - we are familiar

with fighting for freedom.

“In God We Trust” and we will keep the motto!
Click to expand...
Who’s running? I don’t recall anyone suggesting we leave. Even as our religious freedoms continue to be attacked as they are now, I intend to stay to fight another day.

I’m sure everyone else here does also.

As far as the Constitution goes…well, we have activists judges on the Supreme Court who are legislating from the bench, rather than interpreting the Constitution as they are sworn to do; we have “rights” to abortion and “reproductive rights” that involve killing 40 million children.

I’m thinking that the “good old USA” really isn’t so “good”, but it’s my country and as a registered voter, I hope to stay and pray and make some headway against the dictatorship of relativism which is the god of the current vocal majority.

Again…who said anything about RUNNING until you brought it up?
 
I was actually thinking about this earlier today. I would try to be as wise as a serpent and as gentle as a dove. How that would play out, I’m not sure.

I would definitely keep going to Mass, even if it had to be underground. In fact, my appreciation for the Mass would probably deepen when I had to stake my freedom and maybe even my life on it. I wouldn’t try to be too obvious about my faith in public (for exampe wearing a Christian shirt), because it would be prudent for my own safety and for the safety of those around me if I stayed alive and free. But if I were publicly asked to deny Christ, I hope that I would refuse, no matter what I was threatened with. I’m not going to insist that I would go to death for Him, because, like Peter’s initial declaration on Holy Thursday, mine would probably be a declaration more of my own pride than of true devotion. All I can say is that I genuninely hope that I would have the courage needed to stay true to Christ.

The hardest thing for me to draw the line with would probably be evangelizing. As tempting as it would be to just maintain my own prayer life in secret, the early Church would never have gotten anywhere if all its followers kept their Christianity secret. It’s one thing to avoid advertising my faith (which I think would be acceptable), but it’s another to completely hide it. I would like to be able to spread the Good News, but I would have to find ways of doing that that were prudent. Perhaps I would evangelize more by actions of service rather than by public declarations of faith, unless the public declaration was required to avoid abandoning Christ. Then, when people noticed my service and inquired about it, perhaps I could begin discussing with them.

All I can say is, I feel motivated to be a better Christian now, because I could be doing things like serving others just as well without being persecuted.
 
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grotto:
After reading all these posts I want to yell out "STOP

RUNNING" - we live in America, the good old USA, Americans

are not going to roll up and quit on the greatest land and government

in the world with a Constitution and system of government that

is based on Judeo Christian principles.

Don’t forget about the right to keep and bear arms - we are familiar

with fighting for freedom.

“In God We Trust” and we will keep the motto!
Click to expand...
You don’t have to leave this country to imagine the possibility. While I can’t imagine it happening to Christians in the U.S., it was not that long ago–about a century–when we did exactly this to large parts of our Native population. In the interest of integrating the Native people into “civilized” culture, the children were forcibly removed from their homes and put into boarding schools where they were prohibited from practicing their religion, speaking their languages, observing any of their customs or rituals, or seeing their families, while being subjected to physical abuse and often sexual abuse.

The scarring from that experience remains today, manifested in extremely high rates of alcoholism, domestic and sexual abuse, suicide, and rates of poverty and illiteracy far beyond any norm. It is only in recent history that they have been allowed to practice their own sacred rituals again, although their places of worship continue to be confiscated and desecrated by government-sanctioned actions.

What would you do if your ability to practice your religion was eliminated? Difficult question. What would you do if that was enforced by removal of your children and grandchildren with no recourse? That’s a whole new ballgame for me then.

The right to bear arms? The right to fight for our freedom? The freedom to choose our religion? Not many of us would have any of those freedoms if the mighty U.S. government, backed by the courts, said otherwise. If you don’t believe that, look into our not so distant history. It will bring tears to your eyes and give you a whole new perspective on the preciousness of the freedoms most of us get to take for granted.

Peace,
 
As a '60’s person, it occurred to me the other day that the most countercultural thing I do today is try to live as a practicing Catholic in heart and in deed.
 
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