Where's the love for Catholic Nerds?

[WildCatholic]

First of all I don’t know if this is in the right section so if it needs to be moved please do.

Secondly, I ask this because it seems like in a lot of Catholic apologists there is this idea of needing to be manly and strong and not being weak and all that. A lot of people seem to love guys like Bl Frassatti who climbed mountains and gave his life helping the sick and for JP II who skied and canoed and basically was real man’s man. What about those of us who aren’t like that? Sure a lot of people have a love for Tolkien and guys like Augustine (granted he still lived a wild life and reformed himself) and Aquinas, but it seems as if in Catholic circles nerds are out of favor.

So what are those of us who aren’t manly mountain climbing smooth manly men supposed to do. I even sense among Catholic women that they seem to want Catholic supermen (though to be fair many, including me would want a Catholic superwoman) who are into all this manly outdoor boy scout type guys when honestly not every guy can be like that. I mean in my example I’m a guy who likes to read and I love movies and love analyzing them from a Catholic perspective (I love Father Robert Barron especially !! The Barron of Truth LOL) and also am more into cooking and like a good microbrew (most guys do though) but when it comes to building a shelf or hiking a mountain i’m not going to be the first to do so, and I may not be the smoothest with women.

So why the emphasis on “manliness” To me nerdiness is not against Catholicism. Maybe i’m just overplaying this.

 

[JackVk]

I dabble both in “manly” and “nerdy” stuff. I love weightlifting and rock climbing, but I also will analyze any kind of entertainment from a Catholic perspective, including books and video games. Off and on, I’ve been reading the Game of Thrones book series and the short stories of H.P. Lovecraft (hence my Cthulhu avatar and location).

But I really don’t see any evidence against nerdiness in Catholic circles.

 

[pianistclare]

I think you’re overplaying it. What makes a man MANLY is his integrity and humility IMHO.
Makes no difference what he looks like or what he’s into.

 

[John_Lazarus]

I don’t think it’s necessarily a Catholic thing, but it may be an American cultural thing. I do remember threads on these forums, years ago, which were discussing various “manly” qualities. I do remember some stating out and out that crying was unmanly and even un-Christian – under any circumstances. When it was pointed out that “Jesus wept” (John 11:35) and “[the apostles] began to weep aloud and embraced Paul, and repeatedly kissed him…” (Acts 20:37), so did that mean that Jesus and His apostles were unmanly, it was sidestepped.

Except for those threads, I haven’t seen that much of that on CAF. I think you’re more likely to get flak for being on the wrong side of the on-the-tongue/in-the-hands or the orans-or-not-to-orans debates.

 

[PolarGuy]

I happen to think powers of analysis are the furthest thing from unmanly!

Manliness = honesty; integrity; work ethic; willingness to seek to protect and defend the innocent and provide for one’s family; fair play; kindness; willingness to confront adversity in all forms; getting up when life knocks you down; trying to basically live a clean reputable and honorable life.

And one I forgot: Using your God-given talents to the fullest, whatever they are.

 

[angell1]

I don’t think it’s just a catholic thing. nerds in general are the constant center of ridicule in most circles.

I’m a girl and it’s probably even worse for me. math and science are usually treated as unfeminine, as are sports and video games.

how anyone thinks that crying is unmanly or unchristian is beyond me. maybe if you’re a robot or something. just women have a tendency to do it more, doesn’t make it wrong for a man.

and don’t let anyone make you feel bad about cooking, men need to feed themselves too

I used to have similar concerns but even though men and women are different, with different qualities emphasized, doesn’t mean they don’t possess some of the qualities from the other sex, it’s not a mutually exclusive thing

 

[PolarGuy]

A dude who likes to cook and enjoys deep conversations will NOT last on the open market!

 

[3DOCTORS]

How about us Catholic Nerdettes? :curtsey: We who like sci-fi and steampunk and all sorts of geekery? And who also are amazing apologists for the Faith?

Seriously speaking, I think we girl nerds have the counterpart to what you perceive - we are sometimes seen as less feminine, which is just as inaccurate. I have many facets and one is a very girly side.

 

[WildCatholic]

How about us Catholic Nerdettes? :curtsey: We who like sci-fi and steampunk and all sorts of geekery? And who also are amazing apologists for the Faith?

Seriously speaking, I think we girl nerds have the counterpart to what you perceive - we are sometimes seen as less feminine, which is just as inaccurate. I have many facets and one is a very girly side.

I wonder about that too. For example a few of my female friends are on both ends of the spectrum for this. The more nerdy one (who I was attracted to for a long time but found out she wasn’t interested) always said she had trouble with guys and I thought she was lying, but she works in science and I could see it being a double edged sword with women and men thinking she’s not feminine enough.

 

[WildCatholic]

A dude who likes to cook and enjoys deep conversations will NOT last on the open market!

Well, hey do you know anyone who’s interested We can watch The Mission and I can make chicken enchiladas and serve with a glass of red wine, or some of my favorite micro brews (boulevard Dark Truth stout is a fave!)

 

[Sarcelle]

I don’t think it’s just a catholic thing. nerds in general are the constant center of ridicule in most circles.

I’m a girl and it’s probably even worse for me. math and science are usually treated as unfeminine, as are sports and video games.

how anyone thinks that crying is unmanly or unchristian is beyond me. maybe if you’re a robot or something. just women have a tendency to do it more, doesn’t make it wrong for a man.

and don’t let anyone make you feel bad about cooking, men need to feed themselves too

I used to have similar concerns but even though men and women are different, with different qualities emphasized, doesn’t mean they don’t possess some of the qualities from the other sex, it’s not a mutually exclusive thing

Nerdettes in general face different challenges than nerds.
Throwing the question out there. Intelligence is seen in women as unfeminine. Is intelligence in men seen as unmasculine.? I’m guessing it depends. If that intelligence is accompanied by athletic ability then I guess it’s okay.

What do you guys think?

 

[3DOCTORS]

I wonder about that too. For example a few of my female friends are on both ends of the spectrum for this. The more nerdy one (who I was attracted to for a long time but found out she wasn’t interested) always said she had trouble with guys and I thought she was lying, but she works in science and I could see it being a double edged sword with women and men thinking she’s not feminine enough.

It may be that we nerdettes’ brains are hardwired for social awkwardness along with our propensities for geeky interests. Some of us are on the autism spectrum (I’m technically not, though I have ADD & OCD and other family members who are - but my doctor says no, with me it’s just the ADD & OCD). I was shy - and sheltered - growing up which definitely didn’t help. Overcame my shyness in general in most situations around college time - but still had a lot of general anxiety which turned into panic attacks and agoraphobia. That doesn’t make a big hit on a date, mind you - when your date thinks he’s just driving to the movie and you’re freaking out because of being on a highway! But I digress.

I did do a lot of observation of other ladies my age who ended up married, and how it appeared so much easier for them to relate to men naturally and that they had some sort of feminine quality that I knew I didn’t have, though appearances on the surface wouldn’t have made it apparent, i.e., I didn’t dress or look essentially different from them. I’ve never been able to find a word for this difference, but it was almost tangible. Poise, perhaps?

Nerdettes in general face different challenges than nerds.
Throwing the question out there. Intelligence is seen in women as unfeminine. Is intelligence in men seen as unmasculine.? I’m guessing it depends. If that intelligence is accompanied by athletic ability then I guess it’s okay.

What do you guys think?

I know you asked the guys but forgive me for chiming in. I promise I’ll leave your thread alone but I just can’t resist mentioning that in my early days on CAF, many times when I’d make a particularly intellectual post, other (I’m assuming male) posters would refer to me as a “he.” That’s why I take lots of opportunities to mention my sex, so that people will not make that mistake with me or other ladies. Might open some eyes and minds, hee hee. And it’s just kind of fun. Geekette out! :curtsey:

 

[Sarcelle]

It may be that we nerdettes’ brains are hardwired for social awkwardness along with our propensities for geeky interests. Some of us are on the autism spectrum (I’m technically not, though I have ADD & OCD and other family members who are - but my doctor says no, with me it’s just the ADD & OCD). I was shy - and sheltered - growing up which definitely didn’t help. Overcame my shyness in general in most situations around college time - but still had a lot of general anxiety which turned into panic attacks and agoraphobia. That doesn’t make a big hit on a date, mind you - when your date thinks he’s just driving to the movie and you’re freaking out because of being on a highway! But I digress.

I did do a lot of observation of other ladies my age who ended up married, and how it appeared so much easier for them to relate to men naturally and that they had some sort of feminine quality that I knew I didn’t have, though appearances on the surface wouldn’t have made it apparent, i.e., I didn’t dress or look essentially different from them. I’ve never been able to find a word for this difference, but it was almost tangible. Poise, perhaps?

I know you asked the guys but forgive me for chiming in. I promise I’ll leave your thread alone but I just can’t resist mentioning that in my early days on CAF, many times when I’d make a particularly intellectual post, other (I’m assuming male) posters would refer to me as a “he.” That’s why I take lots of opportunities to mention my sex, so that people will not make that mistake with me or other ladies. Might open some eyes and minds, hee hee. And it’s just kind of fun. Geekette out! :curtsey:

Oh, I meant guys in general. Sorry if it was not clear.

Men and women are welcome to respond.

 

[Joe_5859]

I also think you are overplaying it. Just look at some of the Catholic apologists out there. Jimmy Akin blogs about Battlestar Galactica right alongside discussion about the Early Church Fathers. A Catholic nerd if ever there was one.

 

[WildCatholic]

It may be that we nerdettes’ brains are hardwired for social awkwardness along with our propensities for geeky interests. Some of us are on the autism spectrum (I’m technically not, though I have ADD & OCD and other family members who are - but my doctor says no, with me it’s just the ADD & OCD). I was shy - and sheltered - growing up which definitely didn’t help. Overcame my shyness in general in most situations around college time - but still had a lot of general anxiety which turned into panic attacks and agoraphobia. That doesn’t make a big hit on a date, mind you - when your date thinks he’s just driving to the movie and you’re freaking out because of being on a highway! But I digress.

I did do a lot of observation of other ladies my age who ended up married, and how it appeared so much easier for them to relate to men naturally and that they had some sort of feminine quality that I knew I didn’t have, though appearances on the surface wouldn’t have made it apparent, i.e., I didn’t dress or look essentially different from them. I’ve never been able to find a word for this difference, but it was almost tangible. Poise, perhaps?

I know you asked the guys but forgive me for chiming in. I promise I’ll leave your thread alone but I just can’t resist mentioning that in my early days on CAF, many times when I’d make a particularly intellectual post, other (I’m assuming male) posters would refer to me as a “he.” That’s why I take lots of opportunities to mention my sex, so that people will not make that mistake with me or other ladies. Might open some eyes and minds, hee hee. And it’s just kind of fun. Geekette out! :curtsey:

I think even when smarter women aren’t socially awkward but are in more traditionally male dominated fields they are kind of hard up for a lot of men and I don’t know why (maybe some men don’t want smart intelligent women but I doubt that’s the case

 

[pianistclare]

I also think you are overplaying it. Just look at some of the Catholic apologists out there. Jimmy Akin blogs about Battlestar Galactica right alongside discussion about the Early Church Fathers. A Catholic nerd if ever there was one.

Quite right. If you are living among people who don’t accept you?..
Dust off your sandals and move on.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

First of all I don’t know if this is in the right section so if it needs to be moved please do.

Secondly, I ask this because it seems like in a lot of Catholic apologists there is this idea of needing to be manly and strong and not being weak and all that. A lot of people seem to love guys like Bl Frassatti who climbed mountains and gave his life helping the sick and for JP II who skied and canoed and basically was real man’s man. What about those of us who aren’t like that? Sure a lot of people have a love for Tolkien and guys like Augustine (granted he still lived a wild life and reformed himself) and Aquinas, but it seems as if in Catholic circles nerds are out of favor.

So what are those of us who aren’t manly mountain climbing smooth manly men supposed to do. I even sense among Catholic women that they seem to want Catholic supermen (though to be fair many, including me would want a Catholic superwoman) who are into all this manly outdoor boy scout type guys when honestly not every guy can be like that. I mean in my example I’m a guy who likes to read and I love movies and love analyzing them from a Catholic perspective (I love Father Robert Barron especially !! The Barron of Truth LOL) and also am more into cooking and like a good microbrew (most guys do though) but when it comes to building a shelf or hiking a mountain i’m not going to be the first to do so, and I may not be the smoothest with women.

So why the emphasis on “manliness” To me nerdiness is not against Catholicism. Maybe i’m just overplaying this.

Yeah you are overplaying it. The focus on manliness is not against intellectualism but rather on the feminization and emasculation of men. To be frank, we need it. But you have to realize that “nerds” are well represented in Catholicism. You might want to start with the Pope Emeritus BXVI who not only is intellectual but was a non athletic introvert as a youth.

 

[BHL_20]

I wonder about that too. For example a few of my female friends are on both ends of the spectrum for this. The more nerdy one (who I was attracted to for a long time but found out she wasn’t interested) always said she had trouble with guys and I thought she was lying, but she works in science and I could see it being a double edged sword with women and men thinking she’s not feminine enough.

Females in science will get loads of attention from their male peers, as most such males dream of having a girlfriend with whom they will be able to have intellectual conversations. Plus any environment which has a predominance of one gender will make it much easier for members of the other gender to find romantic partners. Males from non-scientific backgrounds may however be intimidated by a woman who is preoccupied with something he isn’t capable of understanding.

 

[Sarcelle]

Females in science will get loads of attention from their male peers, as most such males dream of having a girlfriend with whom they will be able to have intellectual conversations. Plus any environment which has a predominance of one gender will make it much easier for members of the other gender to find romantic partners. Males from non-scientific backgrounds may however be intimidated by a woman who is preoccupied with something he isn’t capable of understanding.

Talking about the odds of finding a potential mate in a field dominated by gender, this is a quote from a male coworker, who attended an engineering school, on the odds of women finding potential boyfriends/husbands at his alma mater:
The odds are good but the goods are odd.

 

[BHL_20]

Talking about the odds of finding a potential mate in a field dominated by gender, this is a quote from a male coworker, who attended an engineering school, on the odds of women finding potential boyfriends/husbands at his alma mater:

        The odds are good but the goods are odd.

I’ve heard this line before, and I’m not taking it personally but I have to say that referring to someone as a “good”, or saying they’re “odd” just for acting on their natural curiosity and pursuing science as a career, is quite derogatory. It also sounds sexist, as if the women in such situations were of higher status and weren’t in fact just as nerdy as the guys. Even if your friend meant this as a self-depreciative joke, I still don’t like it. It needlessly enforces a common stereotype.