Whether Satan knew who Jesus was

[TheHolyGhost]

I read somewhere that the line of thinking or understanding is that Satan didnt know who Jesus was. When Satan tempts Jesus, he begins each one with, “IF you are the Son of God…” seeming to imply that he didnt know but was trying to find out.

Yet in other gospel accounts, while Jesus being in the presence of demons, the demons would cry out, “Leave us alone! You are the Son of God!” or something to that effect, and they obviously knew exactly who Jesus was immediately on the spot.

So did Satan know or didnt he?

BTW: Since Jesus always existed in Heaven before the incarnation and since He saw satan fall from Heaven like lightning, I would think satan would know who Jesus was. Is the claim that satan didnt know possibly incorrect?

 

[TheDoctor]

I read somewhere that the line of thinking or understanding is that Satan didnt know who Jesus was. When Satan tempts Jesus, he begins each one with, “IF you are the Son of God…” seeming to imply that he didnt know but was trying to find out.

Yet in other gospel accounts, while Jesus being in the presence of demons, the demons would cry out, “Leave us alone! You are the Son of God!” or something to that effect, and they obviously knew exactly who Jesus was immediately on the spot.

So did Satan know or didnt he?

BTW: Since Jesus always existed in Heaven before the incarnation and since He saw satan fall from Heaven like lightning, I would think satan would know who Jesus was. Is the claim that satan didnt know possibly incorrect?

As an Angel, Lucifer was able to know God in his spiritual form, but he did not recognize, or possibly believe, God in His mortal form. If Satan knew Jesus was in fact the second person of the Trinity, why would he even try to tempt him?

I believe in the biblical accounts it is when Jesus casts them out (i.e. shows his “divine” side instead of his “human” side) that the demons recognize him as God.

 

[TheHolyGhost]

As an Angel, Lucifer was able to know God in his spiritual form, but he did not recognize, or possibly believe, God in His mortal form. If Satan knew Jesus was in fact the second person of the Trinity, why would he even try to tempt him?

I believe in the biblical accounts it is when Jesus casts them out (i.e. shows his “divine” side instead of his “human” side) that the demons recognize him as God.

It is my understanding that Jesus in His mortal form always existed in Heaven, even before He became incarnate? If Jesus was pure spirit, there wouldnt be such a thing as the Trinity, which always was, is, and ever shall be? Surely the Trinity was always the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, not Father, Holy Spirit, and another Holy Spirit.

 

[Ed_Silvia]

I’ve read in approved writings by the time satan realized Our Lord Jesus was the Redeemer, which was just after the scourging at the pillar, the demons were in such a blood lust they couldn’t be stopped.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Randy_Carson]

I read somewhere that the line of thinking or understanding is that Satan didnt know who Jesus was. When Satan tempts Jesus, he begins each one with, “IF you are the Son of God…” seeming to imply that he didnt know but was trying to find out.

Yet in other gospel accounts, while Jesus being in the presence of demons, the demons would cry out, “Leave us alone! You are the Son of God!” or something to that effect, and they obviously knew exactly who Jesus was immediately on the spot.

So did Satan know or didnt he?

BTW: Since Jesus always existed in Heaven before the incarnation and since He saw satan fall from Heaven like lightning, I would think satan would know who Jesus was. Is the claim that satan didnt know possibly incorrect?

Satan was tempting Jesus by saying, in effect, “If you are the son of God, prove it.”

He knew, but he was trying to goad Jesus into doing something.

Jesus was also fully human, and He had his moments of doubt, I’m sure.

 

[TheHolyGhost]

Satan was tempting Jesus by saying, in effect, “If you are the son of God, prove it.”

He knew, but he was trying to goad Jesus into doing something.

Jesus was also fully human, and He had his moments of doubt, I’m sure.

I would agree. The “If you are…” really wasn’t an indication of not knowing.

So it would be incorrect to claim that satan didnt know. Well I guess that answers that.

 

[TheDoctor]

It is my understanding that Jesus in His mortal form always existed in Heaven, even before He became incarnate? If Jesus was pure spirit, there wouldnt be such a thing as the Trinity, which always was, is, and ever shall be? Surely the Trinity was always the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, not Father, Holy Spirit, and another Holy Spirit.

Jesus, as I understand, just as did the Father and the Holy Spirit, existed in spiritual form from all time. He did not exist in His mortal form until the incarnation and ascended into Heaven in his transfigured body (although since God exists out of time it is a relatively confusing point).

Jesus having a human body is not what makes him part of the Trinity, it is being the Son that makes Him part of the Trinity. The Father, is pure spirit. The Holy Spirit is pure spirit. Jesus is pure spirit. Jesus is also fully human. Since God cannot be split, the Father and the Holy Spirit are also fully human.

 

[TheDoctor]

Satan was tempting Jesus by saying, in effect, “If you are the son of God, prove it.”

He knew, but he was trying to goad Jesus into doing something.

Jesus was also fully human, and He had his moments of doubt, I’m sure.

I understand where you are coming from Randy, but I find it hard to believe that Lucifer, full of perfect knowledge, knowing that Jesus was God could believe that he could tempt Jesus to prove He was God.

I do not believe the Church has taught definitively either way.

 

[TheHolyGhost]

I understand where you are coming from Randy, but I find it hard to believe that Lucifer, full of perfect knowledge, knowing that Jesus was God could believe that he could tempt Jesus to prove He was God.

I do not believe the Church has taught definitively either way.

Perhaps Satans pride was just that strong that he actually thought he could accomplish tricking the Son of God to sin?

 

[TheHolyGhost]

Jesus, as I understand, just as did the Father and the Holy Spirit, existed in spiritual form from all time. He did not exist in His mortal form until the incarnation and ascended into Heaven in his transfigured body (although since God exists out of time it is a relatively confusing point).

Jesus having a human body is not what makes him part of the Trinity, it is being the Son that makes Him part of the Trinity. The Father, is pure spirit. The Holy Spirit is pure spirit. Jesus is pure spirit. Jesus is also fully human. Since God cannot be split, the Father and the Holy Spirit are also fully human.

Well is that indeed the case that the Father is pure spirit? Im not sure it is, considering we.are created in His image. How can a pure spirit have an image? We also talk abput the Beatific Vision, where those granted it see the light of Gods face.

If they were all just three pure spirits, how would we differentiate between say Jesus (second person) from the actual Holy Spirit (third.person)?

Also in the spirit world, can not spirits see or know other spirits?

 

[TARRAT]

I understand where you are coming from Randy, but I find it hard to believe that Lucifer, full of perfect knowledge, knowing that Jesus was God could believe that he could tempt Jesus to prove He was God.

I do not believe the Church has taught definitively either way.

I believe as an earlier poster said that Satan was probably tempting the human Jesus and not the God Jesus. Since he knew him well he knew what things tempted humans. Just a thought.

 

[Nita]

Well is that indeed the case that the Father is pure spirit? Im not sure it is, considering we.are created in His image. How can a pure spirit have an image?

Our souls are pure spirit.
And, of course, God knew that He would take on human flesh at a certain time in human history. It is interesting to contemplate that our human bodies were designed so that they would be a fit receptacle to be united to the 2nd Person of the Trinity - designed to be capable of manifesting His will Person in a material, physical way.

We also talk abput the Beatific Vision, where those granted it see the light of Gods face.

If they were all just three pure spirits, how would we differentiate between say Jesus (second person) from the actual Holy Spirit (third.person)?

Also in the spirit world, can not spirits see or know other spirits?

We will be in heaven without our bodies until the time of the resurrection - but that does not mean we will be dormant. Our souls will be able to act; to recognize God, angels and others, communicate…Rev. 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 6:10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” 6:11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. Also see the Lazarus parable Luke 16:19-30

 

[TheHolyGhost]

Thank you Nita. Youve given me so much attention today

 

[Nita]

Thank you Nita. Youve given me so much attention today

You’re welcome. You pose interesting questions - most of them having to do with understanding how temptation and trials can be used for our good and benefit.

I have a feeling I’m quite a bit older than you, and if so had more comprehensive religion classes in school. I think teaching about spiritual growth - the importance of and the “how to’s” concerning developing virtues, strengthening the will, etc. is part of what just disappeared from religious ed after Vatican II. Hopefully that is changing. I think there are a few generations out there where the whole concept is just foreign, something they’ve never even heard of.