Which 12 apostles

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on_the_hill

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When we count 12 apostles, are we counting Judas or Mathias?
 
14 if we count Matthias and Paul; Judas considered in the original 12
 
I don’t count Paul as an apostle. By my reckoning, only the ones selected by Jesus are part of the group.

Mathias gets an * by his name.
 
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Judas in original 12. Matthias after his death. The Church also celebrates Paul and Barnabas (although he technically is not) to be Apostles.
 
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on_the_hill said:
I don’t count Paul as an apostle. By my reckoning, only the ones selected by Jesus are part of the group.
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Paul was selected by Christ (and confirmed as such by Peter and the others), albeit in an extraordinary way.
 
Yeah, but Paul wasn’t one of the originals.
But I’ll concede the point. Matthias gets an *, Paul gets **.
 
Genesis315 said:
Judas in original 12. Matthias after his death. The Church also celebrates Paul and Barnabas (although he technically is not) to be Apostles.
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Hey!

What is technically wrong with Barnabas’ apostolate?
While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”
Then, completing their fasting and prayer, they laid hands on them and sent them off.
So they, sent forth by the holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia and from there sailed to Cyprus.
Acts 13: 2-4
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If we count the original 12, then Judas is included and Matthias is not. Paul was one of the original 12, he is known to be a disciple of Christ and believed to be selected by Him. Matthias was counted after his death.
 
Before the betrayal, or after? The “Eleven” are referred to in the following passages:

Matthew 28:16
Mark 16:14
Luke 24:9
Luke 24:33
Acts 1:26
Acts 2:14

So, the number would be 12, 11, 12, 13 in order. Normally, the term would apply to the original twelve, but opinions vary.
 
I hope not since Satan is chewing on Judas’ torso (Dante Inferno) along with fellow traitors Brutus and Cassius.
 
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