Which are the liberal diocese in the US?

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mosher:
My Archbishop is a good man but he tends to stand left of center not as bad as some but Orthodoxy to him tends to be a movable trend
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In discipline or doctrine is the Archbishop less than orthodox? What dogma of the faith has he denied?
 
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JKirkLVNV:
The deacon’s statement was not at all absurd in the context of these forums! The word is inappropriately tossed around all the time. Many think that those who have an attachment to the Mass of Paul VI are, de facto, liberals.
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It is also absurd to think that NO goers are liberal as the Pope celebrates them.

The reason why I stated that the statment was absurd is because something can be judged objectivelly wrong liberal or uber-trad just as something can be judged objectivelly correct. Without any qualifyers the statement is absurd.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
In discipline or doctrine is the Archbishop less than orthodox? What dogma of the faith has he denied?
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I would not say that the Archbishop violates any dogma of the faith so far as I have witnessed however his sense of discipline is interesting as well as his idea of who are suitable priests to sit in leadership roles.
 
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mosher:
It is also absurd to think that NO goers are liberal as the Pope celebrates them.

The reason why I stated that the statment was absurd is because something can be judged objectivelly wrong liberal or uber-trad just as something can be judged objectivelly correct. Without any qualifyers the statement is absurd.
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Yes, it can, but then you have people on these forums (and in other places, too), who apply the term “liberal” to something in an entirely subjective judgement.

Pleased to hear your view of the Mass of Paul VI. I hope it’s catching.🙂
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Yes, it can, but then you have people on these forums (and in other places, too), who apply the term “liberal” to something in an entirely subjective judgement.

Pleased to hear your view of the Mass of Paul VI. I hope it’s catching.🙂
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Agreed,

I am very mindful of what the Church teaches and if it is right by the Church it is always right by me. I just wish that more was done to be right by the rites of the Church.
 
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YinYangMom:
Well then, which diocese allow their parishes to teach outside the magisterium?
  • Uses “she” to refer to God
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I haven’t heard about that one in our diocese, doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened or isn’t happening.

YinYangMom said:
- Allows several people to come to the altar to join in the consecration
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This one is still happening. The teens at the Life Teen Mass are still gathering around the altar at two parishes that I know of (churches in Newport Beach and Irvine) probably happening at other parishes.

YinYangMom said:
- Teaches that abortion, birth control, euthanasia, ESCR, and cloning are not ‘always’ to be avoided
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Yep, that’s happening here too. Haven’t heard the ESCR (what is ESCR?) or the cloning come up though.

YinYangMom said:
- Allow openly active gay couples to hold ministry positions in the church
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I don’t know about allowinig a openly active gay couple holding ministry positions but I do know of a priest in our diocese who was living a openly active gay lifestyle, cohabitated with his lover, owned a business together (liturgical design firm). I believe he was relieved of his faculties but he is still doing consulting work for the diocese so the good Catholics of the diocese are indirectly paying for his sinful lifestyle because he is still with his companion, still in the relationship.
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YinYangMom:
Basically, the ones who are misleading their followers in the teachings of the Church…
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YES, YES, YES. How depressing if this were a test our diocese would have failed.
 
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mosher:
I would not say that the Archbishop violates any dogma of the faith so far as I have witnessed however his sense of discipline is interesting as well as his idea of who are suitable priests to sit in leadership roles.
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Discipline is tough, yes, esp. as short of priests as we are. I’ve often wondered how some priests made it to holding pastorates (you know the ones, can’t manage much of anything), but then bishops don’t have a lot to choose from sometime.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Discipline is tough, yes, esp. as short of priests as we are. I’ve often wondered how some priests made it to holding pastorates (you know the ones, can’t manage much of anything), but then bishops cannot be too choosy.
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Unfortunatelly Canon law requires them to be very picky about who they give pastorates. It is a problem when we have one pastor that refuses to go to the Chrism Mass because he refuses to reenew his obedience to the Archbishop.
 
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mosher:
Unfortunatelly Canon law requires them to be very picky about who they give pastorates. It is a problem when we have one pastor that refuses to go to the Chrism Mass because he refuses to reenew his obedience to the Archbishop.
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Is it that same one, the radical left-winger in the northeast part of the state? I’ve read something on him. Poor Archbishop Sheehan. I edited the last post.
 
Dioceses known for a flourishing amount of heterodoxy: (not all inclusive)

Albany, NY
Rochester, NY
Saginaw, MI
Los Angeles, CA
San Francisco, CA
Santa Fe, NM
Rockville Centre, NY
Belleville, IL
St. Cloud, MN
St. Petersburg, FL
Louisville, KY
Cleveland, OH
Cincinnati, OH
Chicago, IL
Dallas, TX
Altoona, PA
Erie, PA
Honolulu, HI
Raleigh, NC
Richmond, VA
Joliet, IL
Seattle, WA
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Is it that same one, the radical left-winger in the northeast part of the state? I’ve read something on him. Poor Archbishop Sheehan. I edited the last post.
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No, that is Fr. John Deere, SJ who is a formal heretic and who is still allowed to minister in the Archdiocese.
 
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mosher:
No, that is Fr. John Deere, SJ who is a formal heretic and who is still allowed to minister in the Archdiocese.
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I don’t know him, I’m afraid (or glad).
 
whosebob said:

JMJ + OBT​
Dear YinYangMom,

The following links won’t present you with family tree diagrams, but may prove helpful to you:

Enjoy!

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA
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Thank you.
 
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GloriaPatri4:
I haven’t heard about that one in our diocese, doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened or isn’t happening.
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Me neither.
This one is still happening. The teens at the Life Teen Mass are still gathering around the altar at two parishes that I know of (churches in Newport Beach and Irvine) probably happening at other parishes.
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Interesting. In my Latin parish the pastor put a stop to that as soon as the directive from LifeTeen came out.
I don’t know about allowinig a openly active gay couple holding ministry positions but I do know of a priest in our diocese who was living a openly active gay lifestyle, cohabitated with his lover, owned a business together (liturgical design firm). I believe he was relieved of his faculties but he is still doing consulting work for the diocese so the good Catholics of the diocese are indirectly paying for his sinful lifestyle because he is still with his companion, still in the relationship.
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As far as I know, he has no contracts with the diocese. The only one that was said to be his is at the Basilica, and Fr. Holquin has denied that this is the case (Fr. Holquin held the office before the priest in question and is wewll versed in liturgical matters).

Deacon Ed
 
I guess I’ll add my 2 cents because I think this is a common view of the Church–a binary opposition that doesn’t square with reality or reason. As Deacon Ed stated, a diocese can’t really be lumped together—even within the same parish there can be what i think some would call ‘liberal’ and traditional priests. But even a priest can variegate how he celebrates the sacraments, e.g. a childrens;s Mass vs a Funeral Mass.
However, more importantly perhaps is the problem with the word ‘liberal’ i don;t think it makes sense to equate it with heterodoxy or even liturgical abuses.
For example, there are many choices for the priest in the Novo Ordo Mass: say the confiteor or the intercessories with the Kyrie response–both are legit. But a priest who consistently does not opt for the Confiteor maybe could be a ‘;liberal’ as i think it is meant. A priest who never uses the Roman Canon version of the Eucharistic Prayer(# 1) might be deemed liberal but he is still quite orthodox.
By the same token, a priest may be personally against face to face confession, but he is obliged to offer it because we have a right to it. So, i think a lot of times what we might suspect as heterodox or an abuse might be better explained. We don;t usually know why a priest or deacon makes the choices that they do.
i really think the question is a bit of a red herring, not very fruitful and perhaps a little uncharitable. i think we need to be charitable and humble in our postings
 
I think we often confuse liturgical discipline with doctrinal issues;maybe making the distinction helps??? Likewise, we confuse irreverance with liturgical abuses.
 
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MaryAgnes:
Wow! I had the same conversation with a fellow parishioner this morning. The problem that exists when laity uses terms like “orthodox” is that they have a preconceived idea of what that is. Sadly, it is not usually what the hierarchy means. it is merely another label which distinguishes the “right” from the “left” (ugh! more labels).

I prefer to use the terms faithful and not faithful to those who are supposed to be following liturgical norms. Whether one follows liturgical norms or not comes down to either ignorance or disobedience.

Larry
Lex Orendi! Lex Credendi!
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