Which are the liberal diocese in the US?

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timmyo:
It seems that a lot of formerly unorthodox dioceses are now moving in the orthodox direction (Milwaukee is a good example), but the unorthodox parishes have yet to be greatly affect in my experience. From what I’ve seen, the more liberal the area is, the more liberal the parishes are. In Chicago, where I live, the north side and north suburb parishes have big problems, with some exceptions, but the South Side is much more likely to be orthodox. The north side is more “cosmopolitan” and therefore, you get a lot of nutty stuff from people who are bent on changing things, regardless of what the Church thinks or teaches.
Exactly!👍 Soooooooo, if a person looks (and has a decent car in some dioceses that are a tad far-flung in the distance between parishes), a person is liable to find what is being sought- even in a “liberal” diocese…I would be careful at St. Christina’s though. 😉
 
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NetNuncio:
Archbishop Vlazny is an interesting man. During the 2004 election, he wrote an article in the Archdiocesan newspaper (Catholic Sentinel) declaring those voting for Pro-Abortion candidates should not present themselves for communion. He has been vocal against gay marriage actions in Portland as well as Oregon’s Assisted Suicide law. So doctrinally, I find him to be very orthodox. Liturgically, he personally says Mass quite well and by the GIRM. However, he has priests in his Archdiocese that he doesn’t punish who do NOT say Mass well and who preach boarderline-heretical theology. He also has members on his staff that can be fairly hostile to those who prefer a more traditional worship.

It may be that Archbishop Vlazy is a reasonably orthodox prelate who is extremely occupied with other things (i.e., the bankruptcy of his archdiocese and mouting sexual abuse claims).

Adam
That is pretty close to my assesment. The one thing that I always worry about is when a Bishop will not protect his flock by removing priests from ministry that are out of step with the Church. The most dangerous thing in this world is the ill formation of the Catholic mind. The Bishop has the role to safeguard the orthodox faith and when he does not he does not follow the example of the sainted Bishops of the past. Not one Bishop saint was ever made that had compromise and moderation as his watchword.
 
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Brendan:
I would have to say that the list is somewhat out of date. Several of these (Saginaw and Dallas in particular) have new bishops that are doing great work.
Dallas’ bishop Grahmann has been bishop since 1990. A co-adjutor was in the diocese for quite a while (I heard sent by Rome to take over when Grahmann retired), but Grahmann refused to retire. It was rumored that the two men could not get along in the least. The co-adjutor finally moved on and Grahmann is still there. Dallas does not have a new bishop, and it doesn’t look like they will ANY time soon.

I don’t know about the hair-splitting differences being discussed (which I am sure have proper theological merit), but I was actually wondering the OP’s original question just this week. As we are looking at moving, and Dallas is a possibility with family close by, I am curious as to its state of affairs.

I wondered if there were some list of areas a neo-traditional Catholic could feel comfortable in, both at church and in the community. Any one out there want to say WHY the dioceses in the top-20 list posted were put up? I am most curious about Dallas.
 
Well, I witnessed it this morning at Mass… after the precious blood was poured out of one of two pitchers, one that was consecrated at this Mass and a smaller pitcher that came out of the tabernacle, half a glass (not chalice, we use wine goblets) of the precious blood ended up spilled all over the side table set up for the ‘Eucharistics Ministers’. I don’t know if the accident happened while pouring or while picking up the glasses, we use ten ministers for the wine and an additional four for the bread, and everyone was gathered around. Everyone threw in their towels to sop up the mess, the towels disappeared into the sacristy behind the altar and everyone went on there merry way to their stations to distribute the wine… a few still giggling about the accident. A perfect example of what you’ve all been discussing.
 
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MICATH:
Well, I witnessed it this morning at Mass… after the precious blood was poured out of one of two pitchers, one that was consecrated at this Mass and a smaller pitcher that came out of the tabernacle, half a glass (not chalice, we use wine goblets) of the precious blood ended up spilled all over the side table set up for the ‘Eucharistics Ministers’. I don’t know if the accident happened while pouring or while picking up the glasses, we use ten ministers for the wine and an additional four for the bread, and everyone was gathered around. Everyone threw in their towels to sop up the mess, the towels disappeared into the sacristy behind the altar and everyone went on there merry way to their stations to distribute the wine… a few still giggling about the accident. A perfect example of what you’ve all been discussing.
ACK!
 
A funny story about that … I was serving mass one day with a priest friend of mine and I was in my cassock and surplace and I went to get the second chalice to help distribute the Precious Blood and the sleeve of my surplace got caught on the corner of the altar causing me to spill some of the Precious Blood. The funny part is that my reaction was to say "Son of a … " and then I caught myself because I was in an old wood covered church that carried sound really well. I looked at Father and he looked at me and we just started to clean up. I will never forget that day because I was trumatized twice for the same action.
 
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MICATH:
Well, I witnessed it this morning at Mass… after the precious blood was poured out of one of two pitchers, one that was consecrated at this Mass and a smaller pitcher that came out of the tabernacle, half a glass (not chalice, we use wine goblets) of the precious blood ended up spilled all over the side table set up for the ‘Eucharistics Ministers’. I don’t know if the accident happened while pouring or while picking up the glasses, we use ten ministers for the wine and an additional four for the bread, and everyone was gathered around. Everyone threw in their towels to sop up the mess, the towels disappeared into the sacristy behind the altar and everyone went on there merry way to their stations to distribute the wine… a few still giggling about the accident. A perfect example of what you’ve all been discussing.
I wouldn’t be so certain that was abuse as much as it was ignorance. Poor instruction leads to poor execution. There are provisions with how to go about cleaning up spills like that, including what to do with the towels used, perhaps they didn’t know the rules, but I would hope they’d look them up right after that mass!
 
Please don’t lump Chicago into the “Liberal” pool.
With over 400 parishes, we certainly have some which tend toward the heterodox, but our Cardinal is very orthodox and is extremely generous and encouraging as far as the Latin Liturgy, Benediction, etc.
It is extremely easy to find an orthodox parish in Chgo.
Which is why I will never ever move. 😃
 
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ChicagoOrthodox:
Please don’t lump Chicago into the “Liberal” pool.
With over 400 parishes, we certainly have some which tend toward the heterodox, but our Cardinal is very orthodox and is extremely generous and encouraging as far as the Latin Liturgy, Benediction, etc.
It is extremely easy to find an orthodox parish in Chgo.
Which is why I will never ever move. 😃
Indeed Francis Cardinal George is a fabulous Bishop as I have friends in the Archdiocese and have spoken to him personally on an occasion at the ordinations for the Society of Saint John Cantius. However, there is a big Bernadine mess yet to be cleaned up oer there. I have also heard good news concerning Mundaline that it is moving in the right direction.
 
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mosher:
Indeed Francis Cardinal George is a fabulous Bishop as I have friends in the Archdiocese and have spoken to him personally on an occasion at the ordinations for the Society of Saint John Cantius. However, there is a big Bernadine mess yet to be cleaned up oer there. I have also heard good news concerning Mundaline that it is moving in the right direction.
Did you mean Mundelein, as in Cardinal Mundelein, for whom the town and seminary are named? I know, it is a tricky spell.

What is the alleged Bernadine mess that still requires “clean up”?

And as I said, there is no possible way the Dioceses of Rockford and Peoria could EVER be considered “liberal”!!! Even Joliet, with Bishop Imesch, has a large population of parishes devoted to orthodox practice.
 
St. John Cantius is MY parish! 😃
The Bernardin mess would be, I assume, things like parishes not even pretending to be loyal to Rome (St. Sabina’s, etc.)
and the improper Catechesis of a generation of Chicagoans.
Lots of fallout from those years…
God bless…
 
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ChicagoOrthodox:
St. John Cantius is MY parish! 😃
The Bernardin mess would be, I assume, things like parishes not even pretending to be loyal to Rome (St. Sabina’s, etc.)
and the improper Catechesis of a generation of Chicagoans.
Lots of fallout from those years…
God bless…
Tell Fr. Gibson that I said hi.
 
Did some looking at the website for the St. Sabina Church you mentioned, or as they call it on their website “The faith community of St. Sabina”.

Will someone alert His Eminence about this place? The pastor gave the commencement address at North Park Theological Seminary, an Evangelical Protestant seminary. The word “Mass” is replaced by “worship service”. The Eucharist isn’t mentioned once. The word “Catholic” isn’t used once. In most locations the priest is refered to as “Pastor Pfleger” rather than “Father Pfleger”. His official title is Rev. Dr. Michael Pfleger, which is the proper title for a deacon with a doctorate, not a priest.

When one looks at the “Pastor’s page”, we see a tribute to some sort of god. The pictures and writings about him elevate him to some sort of cult leader. This place needs some serious reform. It is really rather scary.

Adam
 
Cardinal George is surely aware of St. Sabina’s ‘Faith Community’. I believe he couldn’t NOT be aware. I don’t like to armchair quarterback, and I love my Cardinal very much, but I really wish he would stop this garbage.
You probably won’t be surprised to learn that St. Sabina’s had Al Sharpton do a ‘homily’ recently. They’ve done it all, my friend.
The most recent issue of the rag, “Chicago” magazine is all about Catholics in Chicago. It includes a big article on His Eminence, and has another article “Voices of the Church”, which is one of those articles where they interview a lot of people who think women should be priests, or abortion/birth control should be allowed, etc. and then throw in one token orthodox guy and call it balanced.
Anyhoo, the pastor from St. Gertrude’s parish is one of the voices.
Here’s a bit of his piece:
Since arriving at St. Gertrude’s in 1984, Father Kenneally has been a driving force for transformation. “Edgewater is an extraordinarily diverse, liberal, and socially minded neighborhood,” Kenneally says. “While we at St. Gertrude’s haven’t spearheaded that liberal drift, we have accepted it. Not in our theology, but in our understanding of that social arm the church should have.”
Parishioners at the church- a mix of young families and old-timers- are active participants, and women sometimes say the homily . And while Kenneally admits that it’s against church rules, he says there are some things that you just have to do. “The laity’s the future of the church, and to limit their role is ridiculous,” he says. “These are deeply spiritual people who articulate their beliefs in a very moving way. Why wouldn’t I utilize that?” Despite several slaps on the wrist from the Archdiocese of Chicago, ST. Gertrude’s continues to push buttons. “I’m 70 years old; what can they really do?” he says, laughing. “They may be looking for sanctions, but it’s like taking away my cane, which is cruel and unusual. They’d get in trouble.”
My mouth dropped open when I read this. I could not believe the nerve.
If I ever saw Fr. Gibson and he wasn’t at the altar, I would say hi. But the priests at SJC don’t exactly hang around to shake hands after Mass. Oftentimes, I will say “Good morning, Father” and get complete silence. It’s never happened with Fr. Gibson, but it’s happened with many other priests there. 😦
When the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest finally gets the St. Gelasius restoration done, I’ll be driving down there for Mass. I’ve been down there painting a few times, helping out, and have found them to be a most welcoming, well-mannered, loving bunch. Which means a lot to me because I have no family in Chicago, they’re all down South.
Sorry for rambling.
God bless.

chicagomag.com/ME2/Default.asp
 
Per Forum Rules all stories must provide a direct url to them or be pulled from the board. Please make certain that this is included before posting. (I have added a url to the post quoting it).
 
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muledog:
So, on a scale of 1-10 (1 being +Rembert Weakland and 10 being +Fabian Bruskewitz), I would rate our bishop a 3, our pastor a 2, and our diocese as a whole a 4.
That is the best scale in the history of scales. We have a new Archbishop here in Kansas City, but I would say that so far, he rates 8.5, maybe even 9!
 
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dennisknapp:
Just wondering.

I live in the diocese of Milwaukee, where do you think it ranks?
solidly aboard the barque of Peter, possibly in the port bow quadrant, just where it has been since Abp. Messmer’s time. I’ve been in Milwaukee since 1974, and have been exceedingly blessed by it. We have also been extremely fortunate in our bishops all that time — pious, humble, and devoted and diligent men who truly love, protect, and teach the faithful, and guard us against the Church-political warfare, since the professionally outraged have believed that Milwaukee is their own little battlefield since at least Abp. Stritch’s time …

karen marie, happy Cathedral parishioner
 
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kmknapp:
solidly aboard the barque of Peter, possibly in the port bow quadrant, just where it has been since Abp. Messmer’s time. I’ve been in Milwaukee since 1974, and have been exceedingly blessed by it. We have also been extremely fortunate in our bishops all that time — pious, humble, and devoted and diligent men who truly love, protect, and teach the faithful, and guard us against the Church-political warfare, since the professionally outraged have believed that Milwaukee is their own little battlefield since at least Abp. Stritch’s time …

karen marie, happy Cathedral parishioner
I’ve heard that our last Archbishop, Weakland, was considered a bit on the “liberal” side. Is this true?

Peace
 
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dennisknapp:
I’ve heard that our last Archbishop, Weakland, was considered a bit on the “liberal” side. Is this true?

Peace
Liberal is an understatement.
 
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