Which Bible?

[Cecilianus]

Ebionites still exist? Really? Can you say more? Thanks.

Not the same group as in 1st-century Palestine, but people who believe and practice the same thing as the old Ebionites did - acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah (but not as God), but still practice the Mosaic Law.

Same way we have lots of people who have fallen back into Gnosticism and Arianism today, even though the actual sects of Arius and Valentinus are dead.

(There IS a Gnostic group dating back to the 1st century in Iraq, incidentally, called the Mandeans, which is still flourishing.)

 

[RB2]

The Douay Rheims with Challenor notes has excellent footnotes which explain the doctrines of the Catholic Church. Avoid the New American Bible, its footnotes put a lot of scripture in doubt.

I’ve noticed the same.
In fact I came here to start a thread disucssing this.
It ends up chipping away at the faith.

I’m 1/2 through a reading of the Old Testament( in about 4 weeks) using the NAB (New American Bible). The footnotes point out historical inconsistencies between the passage and true history to include timelines. They point out inconsistencies between one account in one book and another. The footnotes point out what they consider general error and/or errors in troop strengths and lots more.

What the NAB doesnt do is point out historical alignments or where history proves the truth of the bible. Doesnt point out consistency between various accounts of the same story. Doesnt point out certain passages agree with science or troop strengths that would be consistent with est. size of populations/countries.

If you read the NAB and its use of modern critcism you could come away with a chipped away at faith. Because reading the footnotes you are being chipped away at slowly without being reinforced or invigorated at things that greatly agree with history and the real world.

Also, Luke 1:28 is atrocious ‘Hail favored one’ instead of ‘Hail Mary’
and lots of inclusive pronoun language I am told.

I have the Personal Study vers of the NAB, Oxford Press 1995
I wouldnt recommend this, on the other hand I’m not experienced enough to know what is better.

 

[Vince1022]

I
Also, Luke 1:28 is atrocious ‘Hail favored one’ instead of ‘Hail Mary’

Isn’t that what the Greek actually says, though? I don’t think the Greek in 1:28 has the word “Mary” does it?

 

[Cecilianus]

Isn’t that what the Greek actually says, though? I don’t think the Greek in 1:28 has the word “Mary” does it?

The Greek says “Hail, full of grace” (“Xaire, xecharitomene”, I think, though I don’t speak Greek), which is not the same as “highly favored one”.

Oddly enough, “Hail, highly favored one” is an accurate rendition of a verse in the Akathist, which reads “Xaire, xarito’o” (again, I don’t know how standard my spelling is here). But this is probably a coincidence.

 

[Cecilianus]

Also, Luke 1:28 is atrocious ‘Hail favored one’

My NAB is even less accurate - “Rejoice, highly favored daughter”.

 

[ProVobis]

scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/luk1.pdf

suggests alternate translations

caire
chaire
G5463
vm Pres Act 2 Sg
BE-JOYING
be-you-rejoicing !

kecaritwmenh
kecharitOmenE
G5487
vp Perf Pas Nom Sg f
HAVING-been-gracED
having-been-favored-one

and from greeknewtestament.com/B42C001.htm

28 Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
kai eiselqwn o aggelos proV authn eipen caire kecaritwmenh o kurioV meta sou euloghmenh su en gunaixin

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
kai eiselqwn o aggelos proV authn eipen caire kecaritwmenh o kurioV meta sou euloghmenh su en gunaixin

Byzantine Majority
kai eiselqwn o aggelos proV authn eipen caire kecaritwmenh o kurioV meta sou euloghmenh su en gunaixin

Alexandrian
kai eiselqwn proV authn eipen caire kecaritwmenh o kurioV meta sou

Hort and Westcott
kai eiselqwn proV authn eipen caire kecaritwmenh o kurioV meta sou

Latin Vulgate
1:28 et ingressus angelus ad eam dixit have gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus

King James Version
1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, [thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women.

American Standard Version
1:28 And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee.

Bible in Basic English
1:28 And the angel came in to her and said, Peace be with you, to whom special grace has been given; the Lord is with you.

Darby’s English Translation
1:28 And the angel came in to her, and said, Hail, thou favoured one! the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou amongst women.

Douay Rheims
1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Noah Webster Bible
1:28 And the angel came to her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Weymouth New Testament
1:28 So Gabriel went into the house and said to her, ‘Joy be to you, favoured one! the Lord is with you.’

World English Bible
1:28 Having come in to her, the angel said, ‘Rejoice, you highly favored one! The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women!’

Young’s Literal Translation
1:28 And the messenger having come in unto her, said, ‘Hail, favoured one, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women;’

(Sorry, the Greek characters didn’t come out right.)

 

[mswood]

I would suggest you get a Catholic study bible. They offer explanations to help you understand what you are reading.

This is the bible we where given in our RCIA class:

amazon.com/Catholic-Bible-Personal-Study-American/dp/0195289250/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294236028&sr=1-6

I really like this bible because of all the study notes/explanations that it contains. I have a really nice leather bible that I received for confirmation but I find myself still using this study bible more than the other.

This would also be a good choice.

amazon.com/Ignatius-Catholic-Study-Bible-Testament/dp/1586172506/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294236192&sr=1-4

 

[mdrummer5]

Seriously? You know Jews who accept Jesus as the Messiah? Wouldn’t that make them Christrians? Can you clarify? Thanks! This sounds fascinating.

lol they’re referred to as Messianic Jews… I found it interesting myself and posted a new topic in the “other religions” (can’t remember the exact name) forums asking why they aren’t referred to as Christians.

 

[agent_grey]

the word of God is a man not a book.

 

[Cecilianus]

the word of God is a man not a book.

Strictly speaking, both, one in a greater degree than the other.

But you’re right - choosing the most accurate translation of the Bible is not as important as giving yourself completely to God.

 

[Vince1022]

The Greek says “Hail, full of grace” (“Xaire, xecharitomene”, I think, though I don’t speak Greek), which is not the same as “highly favored one”.

Oddly enough, “Hail, highly favored one” is an accurate rendition of a verse in the Akathist, which reads “Xaire, xarito’o” (again, I don’t know how standard my spelling is here). But this is probably a coincidence.

Thanks. That is what I thought, the Greek does not say “Mary”

 

[tanyatang26]

May I know is there any Internatinal Catholic Retail show like International Christian Retail Show (ICRS) in US? If yes, what’s the name? In which country/city and when? I want to go and have a look. Thank You.

 

[ProVobis]

Thanks. That is what I thought, the Greek does not say “Mary”

It very clearly does in Luke 1:27

27 πρὸς παρθένον ἐμνηστευμένην ἀνδρὶ ᾧ ὄνομα Ἰωσὴφ ἐξ οἴκου Δαυίδ, καὶ τὸ ὄνομα τῆς παρθένου Μαριάμ.

 

[Vince1022]

It very clearly does in Luke 1:27

27 πρὸς παρθένον ἐμνηστευμένην ἀνδρὶ ᾧ ὄνομα Ἰωσὴφ ἐξ οἴκου Δαυίδ, καὶ τὸ ὄνομα τῆς παρθένου Μαριάμ.

I may have looked at a different Greek version. Thanks. Which Greek edition are you referring to?

 

[Fieldlark]

For a good formated eBible I use the Catholic Public Domain Version available from B&N,

I bought my mother a kindle and put what i thought was a Catholic Bible on it “New American Standard” (vs. New American Bible) but it turns out to be a Protestant version.
I then got the Catholic Holy Bible, Douay-Rheims, which is a complete eBible but in the old english “crieth” “cometh” “dost” etc.
Why is the largest Christian church, the Catholic Church, so far behind when it comes to having a good eBible available? It seems like the church lags behind the other Christian churches in a lot of things.

 

[Scott_D]

I had a friend who said that the Church is like the Ents in the Lord of the Rings. It takes a long time to do anything, but when it acts, it does so decisively and dramatically.

[For a good formated eBible I use the Catholic Public Domain Version available from B&N,

I bought my mother a kindle and put what i thought was a Catholic Bible on it “New American Standard” (vs. New American Bible) but it turns out to be a Protestant version.
I then got the Catholic Holy Bible, Douay-Rheims, which is a complete eBible but in the old english “crieth” “cometh” “dost” etc.
Why is the largest Christian church, the Catholic Church, so far behind when it comes to having a good eBible available? It seems like the church lags behind the other Christian churches in a lot of things.

[/quote]

 

[ProVobis]

I had a friend who said that the Church is like the Ents in the Lord of the Rings. It takes a long time to do anything, but when it acts, it does so decisively and dramatically.

Here’s a thought. Since when does the Church owe the English or anyone else another translation of the Bible? Shouldn’t her teachings, through the councils, the Popes, bishops, priests, liturgy, and qualified theologians, be enough?

 

[Cecilianus]

[For a good formated eBible I use the Catholic Public Domain Version available from B&N,

I bought my mother a kindle and put what i thought was a Catholic Bible on it “New American Standard” (vs. New American Bible) but it turns out to be a Protestant version.
I then got the Catholic Holy Bible, Douay-Rheims, which is a complete eBible but in the old english “crieth” “cometh” “dost” etc.
Why is the largest Christian church, the Catholic Church, so far behind when it comes to having a good eBible available? It seems like the church lags behind the other Christian churches in a lot of things.

Maybe the Church is more concerned with eternal truths than with technological fads? And if you found the Douay, then it looks to me like they’re doing pretty well. It’s still the best translation.

(“Crieth” and “comest” are not Old English, by the way - they’re older forms still used as formal or poetic language, for example in more traditional Anglican liturgies, appropriately enough since it lacks the vulgarity of the contemporary form of slang. Old English is much older and less comprehensible. Here’s an example of it - the first 50-odd lines of Beowulf:

Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum,
þeodcyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,

monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas. Syððan ærest wearð
feasceaft funden, he þæs frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum, weorðmyndum þah,
oðþæt him æghwylc þara ymbsittendra

ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan. þæt wæs god cyning!
Ðæm eafera wæs æfter cenned,
geong in geardum, þone god sende
folce to frofre; fyrenðearfe ongeat

þe hie ær drugon aldorlease
lange hwile. Him þæs liffrea,
wuldres wealdend, woroldare forgeaf;
Beowulf wæs breme (blæd wide sprang),
Scyldes eafera Scedelandum in.

Swa sceal geong guma gode gewyrcean,
fromum feohgiftum on fæder bearme,
þæt hine on ylde eft gewunigen
wilgesiþas, þonne wig cume,
leode gelæsten; lofdædum sceal

in mægþa gehwære man geþeon.
Him ða Scyld gewat to gescæphwile
felahror feran on frean wære.
Hi hyne þa ætbæron to brimes faroðe,
swæse gesiþas, swa he selfa bæd,

þenden wordum weold wine Scyldinga;
leof landfruma lange ahte.
þær æt hyðe stod hringedstefna,
isig ond utfus, æþelinges fær.
Aledon þa leofne þeoden,

beaga bryttan, on bearm scipes,
mærne be mæste. þær wæs madma fela
of feorwegum, frætwa, gelæded;
ne hyrde ic cymlicor ceol gegyrwan
hildewæpnum ond heaðowædum,

billum ond byrnum; him on bearme læg
madma mænigo, þa him mid scoldon
on flodes æht feor gewitan.
Nalæs hi hine læssan lacum teodan,
þeodgestreonum, þon þa dydon

þe hine æt frumsceafte forð onsendon
ænne ofer yðe umborwesende.
þa gyt hie him asetton segen geldenne
heah ofer heafod, leton holm beran,
geafon on garsecg; him wæs geomor sefa,

murnende mod. Men ne cunnon
secgan to soðe, selerædende,
hæleð under heofenum, hwa þæm hlæste onfeng.

There are translations of individual Gospels into Old English, if you want something legitimate to complain about - but I don’t know if they’re on Kindle.)
[/quote]

 

[dje101]

I was kind of too lazy to read through all the posts, so if someone could answer this for me I’d appreciate it. I bought a New American Bible Catholic Study Bible. Was this a good buy and was it approved by that Bishops council?

 

[Scott_D]

Here’s a thought. Since when does the Church owe the English or anyone else another translation of the Bible? Shouldn’t her teachings, through the councils, the Popes, bishops, priests, liturgy, and qualified theologians, be enough?

Who said anything about the Church owing the English? Don’t read more into statements than what’s there. The Church should provide a reliable, non-politically correct version of the Bible in English if the Vatican wants an educated laity. Waiting for our bishops and priests to tell us everything is not enough.