Which biblical stories can a Catholic not accept as literal?

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PNEUMA said:
No, Jesus did not think Paradise is literal, the thief did not go to a literal Paradise.

The tree of life and the river of life are just symbols.

Catechism 1137 "The book of Revelation of St. John, read in the Church’s liturgy, first reveals to us, “A throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne”: "the Lord God."1 It then shows the Lamb, “standing, as though it had been slain”: Christ crucified and risen, the one high priest of the true sanctuary, the same one "who offers and is offered, who gives and is given."Finally it presents “the river of the water of life . . . flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb,” one of most beautiful symbols of the Holy Spirit.

(“love personified” catholic) gives about 38,800 results on Google, so that’s Church teaching

google.ca/search?as_q=catholic&as_epq=love+personified&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=
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Paradise is literal. Paradise is spoken of in a literal way, it is communicated by God in a literal way. It is a reality.
The exact nature of it is not clear fact. And so by analogy it is spoken of in different ways.

See my post above about the difference between “literal” and scientific/historically factual. Jesus is not trying to infuse this kind of precise knowledge of paradise. If our human minds comprehended the full reality of the beatific vision they would probably explode.
 
goout said:
Paradise is literal. Paradise is spoken of in a literal way, it is communicated by God in a literal way. It is a reality.
The exact nature of it is not clear fact. And so by analogy it is spoken of in different ways.

See my post above about the difference between “literal” and scientific/historically factual. Jesus is not trying to infuse this kind of precise knowledge of paradise. If our human minds comprehended the full reality of the beatific vision they would probably explode.
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No the tree of life, the river of life and the whole paradise is symbolic.
 
PNEUMA said:
No the tree of life, the river of life and the whole paradise is symbolic.
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Two questions:
  1. Did you read my post?
    Where did I say the river of life and the tree of life have no element of symbolism? Symbols, signs, analogies, parables, all point us to realities. Paradise is the reality to which the symbolic points.
If paradise is not a reality, how can you claim those elements are symbolic? Symbolic of what?
  1. Do you understand the senses of Scripture as CCC does?
    The primary sense of scripture is the literal. All other senses derive from the words on the page, obviously.
116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83
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The fact that scripture uses spiritual senses does not deny the literal sense.
The word literal does not mean what modern fundamentalist Americans think it does.
 
Samuel1991 said:
Thank you. Look i dont accept that God really sent two bears to kill 42 persons because of mocking a bald person(Elisha and bears) for example.
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It would be silly to interpret this as literal. God never orders anyone to kill anyone. When I come across scripture where God is commanding the killing of other people, and in some cases innocent people, I always remember that the bible was written in an ancient time by ancient people with an ancient understanding of God.
 
oyaji said:
It would be silly to interpret this as literal. God never orders anyone to kill anyone.
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We are not innocent, we all sin. If God commands the death of someone, he can always restore them to a greater good life after death.
I always remember that the bible was written in an ancient time by ancient people with an ancient understanding of God.
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If God has the power to create the universe and life, he also has the power to inspire people to write his scripture in exactly the way he intends. Ancient people might have a poor understanding of God, but God always has ultimate power. Even if some mighty emperor wanted to corrupt the word of God, he would have to fight against God, so no contest.
 
oyaji said:
It would be silly to interpret this as literal. God never orders anyone to kill anyone. When I come across scripture where God is commanding the killing of other people, and in some cases innocent people, I always remember that the bible was written in an ancient time by ancient people with an ancient understanding of God.
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Or maybe more correct, a primitive understanding of God. Thank God for the new understanding, Jesus gave us.
 
goout said:
PNEUMA;14684740:
No the tree of life, the river of life and the whole paradise is symbolic.
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Two questions:
  1. Did you read my post?
    Where did I say the river of life and the tree of life have no element of symbolism? Symbols, signs, analogies, parables, all point us to realities. Paradise is the reality to which the symbolic points.
If paradise is not a reality, how can you claim those elements are symbolic? **Symbolic of what?
**
2) Do you understand the senses of Scripture as CCC does?
The primary sense of scripture is the literal. All other senses derive from the words on the page, obviously.

The fact that scripture uses spiritual senses does not deny the literal sense.
The word literal does not mean what modern fundamentalist Americans think it does.
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The tree of life is a symbol for the Eucharist
The river of life is a symbol for the Holy Spirit
The paradise is a symbol for the new Jerusalem,
which in itself is a symbol for the community of God.

Revelation 2:7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God”
 
PNEUMA said:
The tree of life is a symbol for the Eucharist
The river of life is a symbol for the Holy Spirit
The paradise is a symbol for the new Jerusalem,
which in itself is a symbol for the community of God.

Revelation 2:7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God”
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ok
🤷
Paradise is also spoken of in the Scriptures, literally.
both/and

2 things:
Symbols point to realities.
Literal is not the same thing as scientific or historic. Do you understand that point?
 
goout said:
ok
🤷
Paradise is also spoken of in the Scriptures, literally.
both/and

2 things:
Symbols point to realities.
Literal is not the same thing as scientific or historic. Do you understand that point?
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The lost paradise spoken of in the Scriptures, is symbolic.

The realities are the Eucharist and the Holy Spirit.
 
I’m always very reluctant to agree with those who say this or that in the bible is merely “allegorical” or “symbolic” because now and then something that was previously thought to be such turns out to have almost certainly been literally true.

I remember reading, for example, that in the 19th Century the “let there be light” part of Genesis was consigned to the “allegorical” because, after all, how could there be light before God created the sun or the stars?

But then along came the Big Bang theory according to which the universe resulted from the immense expansion of a tiny point of energy which would have been so dense that no light could escape from it. The first thing out of the expansion would have been light. In fact, most of the Genesis story is consistent with modern scientific theories, whereas in the past they would not have been.

So, while some things might seem impossible and therefore allegorical, I take those conclusions with a grain of salt.
 
goout said:
And it’s also literal. **“Today you will be with me in paradise.” **
We are talking two different languages.
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No, this is just symbolic language for “Today you will with me enter into communion with God”

Catechism of the Catholic Church 2794 “This biblical expression does not mean a place (“space”)”

Catechism of the Catholic Church 1024 “This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity - this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed - is called “heaven.” Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness”
 
Ridgerunner said:
I’m always very reluctant to agree with those who say this or that in the bible is merely “allegorical” or “symbolic” because now and then something that was previously thought to be such turns out to have almost certainly been literally true.

I remember reading, for example, that in the 19th Century the “let there be light” part of Genesis was consigned to the “allegorical” because, after all, how could there be light before God created the sun or the stars?

But then along came the Big Bang theory according to which the universe resulted from the immense expansion of a tiny point of energy which would have been so dense that no light could escape from it. The first thing out of the expansion would have been light. In fact, most of the Genesis story is consistent with modern scientific theories, whereas in the past they would not have been.

So, while some things might seem impossible and therefore allegorical, I take those conclusions with a grain of salt.
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I take all the scientific theories with a grain of salt, don’t believe any of them.
 
PNEUMA said:
No, this is just symbolic language for “Today you will with me enter into communion with God”

Catechism of the Catholic Church 2794 “This biblical expression does not mean a place (“space”)”
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And who said it “means a place”?
Did I?
 
If one considers facts as something literal, then the first three amazing chapters of Genesis should be consulted.😃 For example. The existence of God as the Creator is literal.
 
PNEUMA said:
Or maybe more correct, a primitive understanding of God. Thank God for the new understanding, Jesus gave us.
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,
God did command Joshua to completely exterminate the Canaanites, as He told Saul to wipe out the Amalekites. Because of Saul’s disobedience, Haman was able to make the decree to wipe out the Jews in Shushan.
 
Samuel1991 said:
Which stories/things/events/decisions in the Bible can a Catholic not accept as literal?
I hope that you have understood this question i m not extremely good at English
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Jonah is one . some parts of revelation , e.g . 7 churches means the complete church , the number 40 is not literal , it means a time that fulfils an action or a length of time , the flood in Noah’s time , the rain did not fall for 40 days and nights .
 
James248 said:
,
God did command Joshua to completely exterminate the Canaanites, as He told Saul to wipe out the Amalekites. Because of Saul’s disobedience, Haman was able to make the decree to wipe out the Jews in Shushan.
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Would Jesus do something like that ? No, he had another understanding of God, that he by the way knew very well.
 
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