Which book is the Injeel / Injil?

[shax]

Salaam

Muslims believe that Christ (pbuh) was given a revelation by God and this revelation is referred to as the Injeel / Injil.

Do Christians also believe this, and if yes then by what name do Christians refer to this revalation?

 

[DaveBj]

Salaam

Muslims believe that Christ (pbuh) was given a revelation by God and this revelation is referred to as the Injeel / Injil.

Do Christians also believe this, and if yes then by what name do Christians refer to this revalation?

Ahlan wa sahlan.

The Arabic word injil comes from the Greek word euangelion, which means “gospel” (the old English word), or “good news.” Specifically, the Gospel refers to the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the books that describe the life of Jesus and contain His words.

 

[shax]

Ahlan wa sahlan.

The Arabic word injil comes from the Greek word euangelion, which means “gospel” (the old English word), or “good news.” Specifically, the Gospel refers to the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the books that describe the life of Jesus and contain His words.

Thank you.

Am i correct in thinking that the Christian belief is that Jesus (pbuh) did not receive a divine revelation?

 

[DaveBj]

Thank you.

Am i correct in thinking that the Christian belief is that Jesus (pbuh) did not receive a divine revelation?

Actually, it would be more accurate to say that Christians believe that Jesus was a divine revelation.

 

[shax]

Actually, it would be more accurate to say that Christians believe that Jesus was a divine revelation.

I meant in the same sense as the past revelations which were revealed to the prophets (pbut) prior to Jesus (pbuh) which were then recorded in a book and passed on through the generations.

Can you please explain your statement that Christians believe that Jesus (pbuh) was a divine revelation.

 

[aemcpa]

Welcome, shax.

The teaching of the Catholic Church on divine revelation can be found in a document called the “Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation” (known as “Dei Verbum”, which are the document’s first two words in Latin).

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html

Christ, being Himself the Second Person of the Trinity, cannot receive divine revelation in the manner of the Prophets; rather, His Incarnation was the means by which God revealed Himself to be a Trinity of Persons, and His words constitute a direct revelation from God to all mankind.

 

[St_Francis]

I meant in the same sense as the past revelations which were revealed to the prophets (pbut) prior to Jesus (pbuh) which were then recorded in a book and passed on through the generations.

Can you please explain your statement that Christians believe that Jesus (pbuh) was a divine revelation.

Christ is divinity, He is one of the 3 Persons in one God. He is not a prophet as were some of those in what we call the Old Testament.

Because He is God, He knows everything, and thus needs no revelation from God. Instead, He revealed things to us, through the Apostles.

Also, unlike the Protestants, we Catholics understand that not everything Christ revealed was written down back then, which is clear from the structure of the New Testament.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Ahlan wa sahlan.

The Arabic word injil comes from the Greek word euangelion, which means “gospel” (the old English word), or “good news.” Specifically, the Gospel refers to the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the books that describe the life of Jesus and contain His words.

The term “the Gospel” refers to the good news of Christ’s incarnation, death, and resurrection, and to the spiritual rebirth and forgiveness of sins that this has made possible for us. While the four canonical accounts of Christ’s life are commonly called “gospels” because they so wonderfully proclaim this single Christian Gospel, the fundamental meaning of the word is not a reference to them specifically. I expect you know this and merely phrased your post poorly.

 

[aemcpa]

The term “the Gospel” refers to the good news of Christ’s incarnation, death, and resurrection, and to the spiritual rebirth and forgiveness of sins that this has made possible for us. While the four canonical accounts of Christ’s life are commonly called “gospels” because they so wonderfully proclaim this single Christian Gospel, the fundamental meaning of the word is not a reference to them specifically. I expect you know this and merely phrased your post poorly.

Which is why the Church doesn’t call them “the Gospels” except informally. In the Mass, we hear “The Holy Gospel, according to St. X”.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

To those saying Christ did not receive revelation from God, while you mean something orthodox, namely that Christ is already the Omniscient God and in need of no revelation, it goes against the New Testament’s approach to the subject, in which Christ is repeatedly portrayed as the recipient of revelation which he then hands on to us.

The meaning is twofold. First, since Christ became a true man he had a human intellect like ours, and this human intellect received divine revelation. Second, and perhaps more importantly, everything the Son has, including his full divinity, he got from the Father. Thus the New Testament’s language about revelation being given by the Father to the Son is a reflection of eternal expression of the Knowledge or Idea of God (God’s Logos) which is exactly what constitutes the eternal begetting of the Son.

 

[dshix]

To those saying Christ did not receive revelation from God, while you mean something orthodox, namely that Christ is already the Omniscient God and in need of no revelation, it goes against the New Testament’s approach to the subject, in which Christ is repeatedly portrayed as the recipient of revelation which he then hands on to us.

The meaning is twofold. First, since Christ became a true man he had a human intellect like ours, and this human intellect received divine revelation. Second, and perhaps more importantly, everything the Son has, including his full divinity, he got from the Father. Thus the New Testament’s language about revelation being given by the Father to the Son is a reflection of eternal expression of the Knowledge or Idea of God (God’s Logos) which is exactly what constitutes the eternal begetting of the Son.

“…portrayed as the recipient of revelation”? Can you cite where in the bible it says that God the Father directly revealed something to Christ?

There is no reason for Jesus to need to be “taught” by God, because He IS God.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

“…portrayed as the recipient of revelation”? Can you cite where in the bible it says that God the Father directly revealed something to Christ?

There is no reason for Jesus to need to be “taught” by God, because He IS God.

What? You want me to work to demonstrate my points?

Ok, how are these for starters (from the NRSV which I never usually use, but it’s all I have on hand)?

“for I have not spoken on my own, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak.” (John 12:49)

“Now they know that everything you [the Father] have given me [Jesus Christ] is from you; for the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from you; and they believed that you sent me.” (John 17:7-8)

“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place; he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,” (Rev 1:1)

 

[TimothyH]

Deacon Jeff is correct.

Jesus did not recieve revelation but is revelation. Christ is the fullness of God’s revelation to man in the flesh. Christ is God. When we look upon Christ, we see God.

If you know me, then you will also know my Father. From now on you do know him and have seen him.” Philip said to him, “Master, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. (John 14:7:-9)

Jesus is the good news, the Gospel, the word of God, walking around as a man.

-Tim-

 

[DaveBj]

I meant in the same sense as the past revelations which were revealed to the prophets (pbut) prior to Jesus (pbuh) which were then recorded in a book and passed on through the generations.

Can you please explain your statement that Christians believe that Jesus (pbuh) was a divine revelation.

Sorry, I had to go to work. In the meantime, others have given splendid answers to your question above.

The term “the Gospel” refers to the good news of Christ’s incarnation, death, and resurrection, and to the spiritual rebirth and forgiveness of sins that this has made possible for us. While the four canonical accounts of Christ’s life are commonly called “gospels” because they so wonderfully proclaim this single Christian Gospel, the fundamental meaning of the word is not a reference to them specifically. I expect you know this and merely phrased your post poorly.

No, I worded my post just fine. I was referring to the meaning of the Arabic word injil, not to the expanded meaning of “gospel” in English.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Sorry, I had to go to work. In the meantime, others have given splendid answers to your question above.

No, I worded my post just fine. I was referring to the meaning of the Arabic word injil, not to the expanded meaning of “gospel” in English.

By switching from the Arabic word to the English one, preceding it with the definite article, and capitalizing the “G” the wording suggested you were giving the fundamental Christian definition for the word “Gospel”, not merely the best translation of injil. Of course this is a trivial argument since we are in agreement about the subject itself.

 

[shax]

What? You want me to work to demonstrate my points?

Ok, how are these for starters (from the NRSV which I never usually use, but it’s all I have on hand)?

“for I have not spoken on my own, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak.” (John 12:49)

“Now they know that everything you [the Father] have given me [Jesus Christ] is from you; for the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from you; and they believed that you sent me.” (John 17:7-8)

“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place; he made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,” (Rev 1:1)

Thank you.

What were the words from “the father” given to Jesus (pbuh) which were “given to them” and were received by them, through which they believed “the father” sent Jesus (pbuh)?

What are these revelations that were given to Jesus (pbuh)?

What did God give… “God gave him to show his servants…”?

Are these verses disputed amongst christians at large? Or is the meaning disputed?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Thank you.

What were the words from “the father” given to Jesus (pbuh) which were “given to them” and were received by them, through which they believed “the father” sent Jesus (pbuh)?

What are these revelations that were given to Jesus (pbuh)?

What did God give… “God gave him to show his servants…”?

Are these verses disputed amongst christians at large? Or is the meaning disputed?

In the case of the first two verses I quoted, the context is the Last Supper that Jesus had with his disciples the night before he was crucified. The meaning is presumably the preaching he had done over the last several years, which by now the disciples (with the possible exception of Judas Iscariot) knew had come from God.

The third verse has a completely different context, from the book of Revelation. In this case it is a book of apocalyptic prophesy, mostly one big vision given to the author John. All this is happening decades after the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ and the Church has spread throughout much of the known world. In this first verse of the book John tells us that this revelation of things to come was given by God to Jesus Christ, who in turn made it known by sending his angel to John.

The verses themselves are certainly not disputed, and I don’t think many Christians would find anything controversial about them. Jesus always speaks the words of the Father and does the will of the Father, and so it is not at all inappropriate for the Bible to speak of him as first receiving those words.

None of this threatens our belief in the divinity of Christ, because as I mentioned in a previous post we believe 1) God the Son’s divine existence and all that this implies comes entirely from God the Father and 2) God the Son became a true man and as a true man received knowledge with his human intellect and obeyed God with his human will.

 

[shax]

In the case of the first two verses I quoted, the context is the Last Supper that Jesus had with his disciples the night before he was crucified. The meaning is presumably the preaching he had done over the last several years, which by now the disciples (with the possible exception of Judas Iscariot) knew had come from God.

The third verse has a completely different context, from the book of Revelation. In this case it is a book of apocalyptic prophesy, mostly one big vision given to the author John. All this is happening decades after the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ and the Church has spread throughout much of the known world. In this first verse of the book John tells us that this revelation of things to come was given by God to Jesus Christ, who in turn made it known by sending his angel to John.

The verses themselves are certainly not disputed, and I don’t think many Christians would find anything controversial about them. Jesus always speaks the words of the Father and does the will of the Father, and so it is not at all inappropriate for the Bible to speak of him as first receiving those words.

None of this threatens our belief in the divinity of Christ, because as I mentioned in a previous post we believe 1) God the Son’s divine existence and all that this implies comes entirely from God the Father and 2) God the Son became a true man and as a true man received knowledge with his human intellect and obeyed God with his human will.

I am not contesting your belief in the divinity of Christ (pbuh). I only started this thread to understand what the injeel / injil is according to Christian sources. Muslims believe that Jesus (pbuh) was given a revelation in the same way past prophets (pbut) were given revelations which were then recorded by their respective followers.

What i have understood from this thread is that Jesus (pbuh) was given revelation from God, but the New Testament does not directly record these revelations, but instead record the understanding of the followers of Christ (pbuh)? Is that correct?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I am not contesting your belief in the divinity of Christ (pbuh). I only started this thread to understand what the injeel / injil is according to Christian sources. Muslims believe that Jesus (pbuh) was given a revelation in the same way past prophets (pbut) were given revelations which were then recorded by their respective followers.

What i have understood from this thread is that Jesus (pbuh) was given revelation from God, but the New Testament does not directly record these revelations, but instead record the understanding of the followers of Christ (pbuh)? Is that correct?

Well, the New Testament does include many extensive quotations from Jesus, though the degree to which they are verbatim is a legitimate topic of discussion. For instance Jesus presumably mostly preached in Aramaic and the New Testament is written in Greek, so there is the matter of translation (though modern scholarship has apparently shown that Galilee was a very bilingual area at that time, so some preaching in Greek is quite possible). While Jesus was certainly literate (he is recorded doing a reading in a Synagogue, and anyway Jews in the Holy Land, both men and women, were practically universally literate at that time) he did not write any books or letters that we are aware of (there is one non-Biblical letter to a Mesopotamian king that one could point to, but it is highly unlikely that it is authentic).

On this topic though we should probably go back to the point brought up by others, that Jesus is himself God’s paramount revelation. The Church has Jesus Christ himself. In him alone we have the fullness of the Word of God.

 

[shax]

On this topic though we should probably go back to the point brought up by others, that Jesus is himself God’s paramount revelation. The Church has Jesus Christ himself. In him alone we have the fullness of the Word of God.

I am not contesting this and neither am i discussing this point. In fact, i agree that Jesus (pbuh) was a revelation of God, in much the same way all true Prophets (pbut) are revelations of God.

But according to the verses you quoted, some additional revelation was given to Christ (in addition to being a revelation himself).

It is this additional revelation, which i am trying to ascertain to be the same revelation which is understood by Muslims to have been revealed by God to Jesus (pbuh).