Which came first....Protestantism or Catholicism?

[Thorwald]

We tend to equate ‘Protestantism’, with the Protestant Reformation. Protestantism is simply a name given to following the original Word of God as per the O/T and the N/T, without any specific doctrinal ‘add-ons’. In other words, as was preached unto us by Jesus Christ, the disciples, the apostles and the prophets.

Other than a small difference in the number of books included in the KJV Bible versus the RC Bible, they are basically the same. The major differences between the Christian faiths, stem from the doctrines and understanding/interpretation of the Holy Word. Other than this fact, can it not be said that both basic faiths started at the same time? Are they not basically originated from the same Word?

 

[Fidelis]

We tend to equate ‘Protestantism’, with the Protestant Reformation. Protestantism is simply a name given to following the original Word of God as per the O/T and the N/T, without any specific doctrinal ‘add-ons’. In other words, as was preached unto us by Jesus Christ, the disciples, the apostles and the prophets.

Other than a small difference in the number of books included in the KJV Bible versus the RC Bible, they are basically the same. The major differences between the Christian faiths, stem from the doctrines and understanding/interpretation of the Holy Word. Other than this fact, can it not be said that both basic faiths started at the same time? Are they not basically originated from the same Word?

The highlighted above is where you err. Protestanism, by almost anyone’s definition, are those Christians follow the tradition originating in the 16th century which rejected the authority of the Catholic Church and many of it’s teachings (which is why it is called Protestantism). It is further distinguished by the three classic Protestant tenets of Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura, with it’s corollary, private interpretation. These three tenets were completely novel, having never been believed or taught by Christians before this time.

So, to answer your question, Catholicism came first (as the historical evidence shows) and Protestantism came 1600 years later as type of “reform” movement that quickly developed into, for all practical purposes, schism in the Body of Christ.

Hope that helps.

 

[Thorwald]

The highlighted above is where you err. Protestanism, by almost anyone’s definition, are those Christians follow the tradition originating in the 16th century which rejected the authority of the Catholic Church and many of it’s teachings (which is why it is called Protestantism). It is further distinguished by the three classic Protestant tenets of Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura, with it’s corollary, private interpretation. These three tenets were completely novel, having never been believed or taught by Christians before this time.

So, to answer your question, Catholicism came first (as the historical evidence shows) and Protestantism came 1600 years later as type of “reform” movement that quickly developed into, for all practical purposes, schism in the Body of Christ.

Hope that helps.

I agree with your historical facts concerning the Protestant Reformation. I researched all of this topic on the internet. What I am trying to say, is if both faiths follow the teachings (do’s and don’t’s) in roughly the same N/T, how can one faith be before the other? Is it not the same Word of God?

 

[Fidelis]

The most you can say is that Christianty started at one point in time. When you distinguish between Catholicism and Protestantism, as you did, then it is clear that Catholicism was around 1600 years before Protestantism.

Hope that helps.

 

[Thorwald]

The most you can say is that Christianty started at one point in time. When you distinguish between Catholicism and Protestantism, as you did, then it is clear that Catholicism was around 1600 years before Protestantism.

Hope that helps.

I agree fully with your response above. The “Catholic Church” was created first after the N/T teachings, and the “Protestant Churches” began with the Protestant Reformation. The N/T Word of God came first, via Jesus Christ, the disciples, the apostles and the prophets.

The whole point that I was trying to raise, was that currently, we have ‘head-bashing’ going on between the two faiths, and yet, we use the same Word of God. The differences lie in the way in which we personally worship God. We interpret the acts/beliefs/interpretations of The Word by ourselves and others, as being correct, or not, and worship accordingly.

 

[LilyM]

I agree with your historical facts concerning the Protestant Reformation. I researched all of this topic on the internet. What I am trying to say, is if both faiths follow the teachings (do’s and don’t’s) in roughly the same N/T, how can one faith be before the other? Is it not the same Word of God?

The Word of God is one - but not all faiths calling themselves Christian are one, not by a long shot. And obviously not all DO follow the same teachings (not even the same DO’s and DONT’s). If they did, their practices AND beliefs would all be the same, no?

Surely Jesus only meant, and thus was only teaching, ONE thing when He said ‘This is my body’. Yet Protestants and Catholics believe very different, indeed largely incompatible, things on the topic in spite of reading the selfsame words. Only one can be right, only one can possess the truly interpreted Word of God, no? When Jesus said those words He either meant transubstantiation, or He meant consubstantiation, or He meant symbol. Those Christians who believe wrongly do NOT follow the same teachings or the same NT.

The Judaisers of Acts weren’t one with their Gentile brothers - which is why the Apostles had to meet in council to determine which belief was correct, whether all Christians had to follow the law of Moses in its entirety or not.

In a sense, it’s actually beside the point which came before the other. Did not Judaism come before both? Yet we don’t believe that Judaism is the true faith, do we?

 

[Thorwald]

The Word of God is one - but not all faiths calling themselves Christian are one, not by a long shot. And obviously not all DO follow the same teachings (not even the same DO’s and DONT’s). If they did, their practices AND beliefs would all be the same, no?

Surely Jesus only meant, and thus was only teaching, ONE thing when He said ‘This is my body’. Yet Protestants and Catholics believe very different, indeed largely incompatible, things on the topic in spite of reading the selfsame words. Only one can be right, only one can possess the truly interpreted Word of God, no? When Jesus said those words He either meant transubstantiation, or He meant consubstantiation, or He meant symbol. Those Christians who believe wrongly do NOT follow the same teachings or the same NT.

The Judaisers of Acts weren’t one with their Gentile brothers - which is why the Apostles had to meet in council to determine which belief was correct, whether all Christians had to follow the law of Moses in its entirety or not.

In a sense, it’s actually beside the point which came before the other. Did not Judaism come before both? Yet we don’t believe that Judaism is the true faith, do we?

I am a Protestant, but I no longer go to any church. The Protestant churches have become places of ‘jangling’. Even within the same faith, I find different interpretations. I used to go to church one hour earlier than the service, in order to participate in the Bible studies, and on many occasions had to correct the pastor, or some other self-appointed loud mouth. The pastors seemed more concerned with not irritating those that paid his salary, than taking control in a proper spiritual sense. It was like a mouse trying to teach a cat. I became disgusted. Many of the Protestant churches have degraded themselves to nothing more than a gathering of ‘clique members’.

A danger of the current fragmentaion within the Protestant churches, is the loss of consolidation of true understanding of the scriptures. Everyone is becoming a ‘Jack of all trades’, but a master of none.

I do not agree with all that is taught within the R.C. Church, but I have to admit, that basically, there is a unified approach within this church body.

 

[Lev23]

The Judaisers of Acts weren’t one with their Gentile brothers - which is why the Apostles had to meet in council to determine which belief was correct, whether all Christians had to follow the law of Moses in its entirety or not.

In a sense, it’s actually beside the point which came before the other. Did not Judaism come before both? Yet we don’t believe that Judaism is the true faith, do we?

The most you can say is that Christianty started at one point in time. When you distinguish between Catholicism and Protestantism, as you did, then it is clear that Catholicism was around 1600 years before Protestantism.

Hope that helps.

Good points.

Here is a conversation starter.

When the New Covenant/Church began, there was the remnant of Israel.

 

[Dempsey1919]

I agree fully with your response above. The “Catholic Church” was created first after the N/T teachings, and the “Protestant Churches” began with the Protestant Reformation. The N/T Word of God came first, via Jesus Christ, the disciples, the apostles and the prophets.

The Catholic Church came before the New Testament had been written down. In fact, the New Testament was written by members of the Church. Jesus left no written documentation after his death. He left the oral teachings to the Apostles headed by St. Peter. After Pentecost, when the Church was founded, the Apostles and their followers began to write the life and teachings of Christ down. There were many different Gospels and other Christian documents. Over the course of time, the Catholic Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, determined which books to accept and which books to reject. The books they declared to be canonical are the ones in the Old and New Testaments. Without the Catholic Church, there would have been no written New Testament. We only have the New Testament because of the Catholic Church.

 

[AliciaCL]

In fact, Thorwald, a point often overlooked is that the RCC determined what written works were to be included in the bible in the 3rd century. All of the Protestants, conceded to the authority of the church by accepting the decision of what would be included. No reforming church ever tried to re-evaluate what should and should not be in the bible. Reformers attempted change in the church’s practices, power and influence but they – not the RCC – “went off the rails” by changing doctrine. There was no legitimate reason to change doctrine. Now millions of people 500 years later have been led off track and don’t even know it. Those Protestants who convert usually take many years of inquiry and studying before they see that the RCC is the true church which Christ began. For those pragmatists, the RCC is the only institution on the planet that has lasted as long as it has. It has never changed doctrine but supplemented interpretation yet it has been persecuted, and slandered and lied about all along. It should give one pause.

 

[guanophore]

We tend to equate ‘Protestantism’, with the Protestant Reformation. Protestantism is simply a name given to following the original Word of God as per the O/T and the N/T, without any specific doctrinal ‘add-ons’. In other words, as was preached unto us by Jesus Christ, the disciples, the apostles and the prophets.

No. Protestantism is not a word given to following the original word of God. That would be Catholicism!

During the Reformation, there were those who felt the need to Protest what was being practiced/taught.

None of the Reformers had the gospel preached directly to them by Jesus, his disciples, the apostles or the prophets. All they had was passed on to them through the Catholic Church, which was founded by Christ.

Other than a small difference in the number of books included in the KJV Bible versus the RC Bible, they are basically the same. The major differences between the Christian faiths, stem from the doctrines and understanding/interpretation of the Holy Word. Other than this fact, can it not be said that both basic faiths started at the same time? Are they not basically originated from the same Word?

The Catholic Church is not a “religion of the book” as the Protestant religions are. Our faith is not based on the bible. Our doctrines do not depend upon how the Word is interpreted.

There is only One Church, and it did come from the One Word, who was before all time.

I agree with your historical facts concerning the Protestant Reformation. I researched all of this topic on the internet. What I am trying to say, is if both faiths follow the teachings (do’s and don’t’s) in roughly the same N/T, how can one faith be before the other? Is it not the same Word of God?

Catholics follow the faith that was passed on to us from the Apostles. Protestants follow the faith that was developed after separation from the Apostolic Tradition occurrred. Protestant doctrine (that which has not been retained from the Catholic Church, such as the Trinity and the canon of Scripture) is developed from parsing the New Testament, and assembling doctrine from extrabiblical theories, such as Sola Scriptura.

The differences lie in the way in which we personally worship God. We interpret the acts/beliefs/interpretations of The Word by ourselves and others, as being correct, or not, and worship accordingly. :)

I agree this is where the differences lie, however, Catholics follow the pattern of sound words and lifestyle put in place by the Apostles. We see this reflected in Scripture, but the Source of our faith is Jesus Himself, not how we interpret scripture.

 

[seintz]

We tend to equate ‘Protestantism’, with the Protestant Reformation. Protestantism is simply a name given to following the original Word of God as per the O/T and the N/T, without any specific doctrinal ‘add-ons’. In other words, as was preached unto us by Jesus Christ, the disciples, the apostles and the prophets.

Other than a small difference in the number of books included in the KJV Bible versus the RC Bible, they are basically the same. The major differences between the Christian faiths, stem from the doctrines and understanding/interpretation of the Holy Word. Other than this fact, can it not be said that both basic faiths started at the same time? Are they not basically originated from the same Word?

This is a distorted question. The person asking is in himself/herself confused of his/her own question.

The question is asking whether which came frst, Protestantism or Catholicism? But if you read the content or shall i say the argument, it is talking about 1.’*Protestantism is simply a name given to following the original Word of God *’, 2.‘the difference in the number of books included in the KJV Bible versus the RC Bible doesn’t matter’ and
3.‘both basic faiths started at the same time… and basically originated from the same Word’

Let me share my humble thought about this matter:
First, Whether who came first:
By the word “Protestantism”, common sense will tell us that Catholicism was already existing before Protestantism was realized. The terminology ‘Protestantism’ exist only in referrence to Catholicism to which it is protesting. Without the Catholic teachings that which they are protesting, Protestantism therefore will not be there because it will have no basis of its argument (no basis for its protest) in the first place. In this sense, Catholicism obviously was already there before Protestantism was formed. So, please, don’t ask again about who came first between the two.

Second: The difference with the number of books in the Bible of both religion matters a lot. If one is reading a book and that person realizes that pages 5-9 of chapter 1, pages 25-32 of chapter 5, and pages 3-17 of chapter 12 were missing, I don’t think one will take it for granted. With the missing pages, one will not be able to understand or get the whole message or thought of what a particular book was talking about. This is true with regular books; how much more with our Bible where every book, every page, every word speaks of the Word and the truth about God?

Third: Catholic and Protestant basic faiths did not start at the same time. Catholic faith was already ‘there’ and Protestants came to formulate their own. Protestants departs from the Catholic belief, they are not of the same faith.

Have a blessed day ahead!

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I agree with your historical facts concerning the Protestant Reformation. I researched all of this topic on the internet. What I am trying to say, is if both faiths follow the teachings (do’s and don’t’s) in roughly the same N/T, how can one faith be before the other? Is it not the same Word of God?

The Catholic Church predates the bible.

In fact, by the time Revelations was written, the Church was already on it’s third of fourth Pope.

 

[Thorwald]

The Catholic Church predates the bible.

In fact, by the time Revelations was written, the Church was already on it’s third of fourth Pope.

The Bible, is simply a name given to the collection of Biblical historical writings (books, letters, etc.) which all Christianity is based upon. This ‘collection’ is assumed to be The Word of God. I do not understand your argument. The Word came before any church was formed. Jesus Christ came to bear witness to the truth of the Word, and give us an understanding of it (ie. provide the ‘light’). The disciples and apostles then went forward to teach to His sheep, that they may know the truth. It was at this time, that ‘churches’ (ie. gathering places in order to hear the Word, worship God, and give charity) were formed. The Biblical writings were in place, before the word ‘Bible’ was probably ever thought of.

 

[Thorwald]

This is a distorted question. The person asking is in himself/herself confused of his/her own question.

The question is asking whether which came frst, Protestantism or Catholicism? But if you read the content or shall i say the argument, it is talking about 1.’*Protestantism is simply a name given to following the original Word of God *’, 2.‘the difference in the number of books included in the KJV Bible versus the RC Bible doesn’t matter’ and
3.‘both basic faiths started at the same time… and basically originated from the same Word’

Let me share my humble thought about this matter:
First, Whether who came first:
By the word “Protestantism”, common sense will tell us that Catholicism was already existing before Protestantism was realized. The terminology ‘Protestantism’ exist only in referrence to Catholicism to which it is protesting. Without the Catholic teachings that which they are protesting, Protestantism therefore will not be there because it will have no basis of its argument (no basis for its protest) in the first place. In this sense, Catholicism obviously was already there before Protestantism was formed. So, please, don’t ask again about who came first between the two.

Second: The difference with the number of books in the Bible of both religion matters a lot. If one is reading a book and that person realizes that pages 5-9 of chapter 1, pages 25-32 of chapter 5, and pages 3-17 of chapter 12 were missing, I don’t think one will take it for granted. With the missing pages, one will not be able to understand or get the whole message or thought of what a particular book was talking about. This is true with regular books; how much more with our Bible where every book, every page, every word speaks of the Word and the truth about God?

Third: Catholic and Protestant basic faiths did not start at the same time. Catholic faith was already ‘there’ and Protestants came to formulate their own. Protestants departs from the Catholic belief, they are not of the same faith.

Have a blessed day ahead!

Refer to my posting #14.

 

[guanophore]

The Bible, is simply a name given to the collection of Biblical historical writings (books, letters, etc.) which all Christianity is based upon.

No Thor, this is false. The Catholic Church is not “bible based”. The Catholic Church is based on Jesus, and predated the “bible” for four centuries. The Protestant faiths are based on the collection of writings because they felt it necessary to reject the Apostolic Traditions, through which the faith of Chrsit was transmitted.

This ‘collection’ is assumed to be The Word of God. I do not understand your argument. The Word came before any church was formed. Jesus Christ came to bear witness to the truth of the Word, and give us an understanding of it (ie. provide the ‘light’). The disciples and apostles then went forward to teach to His sheep, that they may know the truth. It was at this time, that ‘churches’ (ie. gathering places in order to hear the Word, worship God, and give charity) were formed. The Biblical writings were in place, before the word ‘Bible’ was probably ever thought of.

All the early church had was the OT. The Church was what produced the NT. All if the NT was written by, for, and about Catholics, and it was never intended to be separated from the Apostolic Tradition that produced it. It was not until 382 that the Catholic Church chose from among 400+ texts floating about claiming to be “the Word of God” the 27 that now make up the NT. These were chosen because they were consistent with the immutable teaching of Jesus preserved through the Church.

 

[Thorwald]

No. Protestantism is not a word given to following the original word of God. That would be Catholicism!

During the Reformation, there were those who felt the need to Protest what was being practiced/taught.

None of the Reformers had the gospel preached directly to them by Jesus, his disciples, the apostles or the prophets. All they had was passed on to them through the Catholic Church, which was founded by Christ.

The Catholic Church is not a “religion of the book” as the Protestant religions are. Our faith is not based on the bible. Our doctrines do not depend upon how the Word is interpreted.

There is only One Church, and it did come from the One Word, who was before all time.

Catholics follow the faith that was passed on to us from the Apostles. Protestants follow the faith that was developed after separation from the Apostolic Tradition occurrred. Protestant doctrine (that which has not been retained from the Catholic Church, such as the Trinity and the canon of Scripture) is developed from parsing the New Testament, and assembling doctrine from extrabiblical theories, such as Sola Scriptura.

I agree this is where the differences lie, however, Catholics follow the pattern of sound words and lifestyle put in place by the Apostles. We see this reflected in Scripture, but the Source of our faith is Jesus Himself, not how we interpret scripture.

Take your ‘Bible’, and reduce it to the teachings of Jesus Christ, the apostles, the disciples and the prophets (ie. eliminate any doctrinal add-ons), compare it to the KJV Bible, and tell me what differences there are.

 

[guanophore]

Take your ‘Bible’, and reduce it to the teachings of Jesus Christ, the apostles, the disciples and the prophets (ie. eliminate any doctrinal add-ons), compare it to the KJV Bible, and tell me what differences there are.

I am trying to explain the difference to you, but you do not seem to be listening. Catholicism is not “bible based”, so your question is irrelevant.

 

[Tonks40]

Take your ‘Bible’, and reduce it to the teachings of Jesus Christ, the apostles, the disciples and the prophets (ie. eliminate any doctrinal add-ons), compare it to the KJV Bible, and tell me what differences there are.

How do you know that the teachings in the Bible are what Christ taught?

 

[LeroyCRHP]

Just because someone mostly copies the book doesn’t mean they are teaching the same message. The Catholic church having started in the beginning with Jesus has much of it’s authority not in the bible, but in the word from Jesus to his disciples. THis is also the value of 1000’s of clergy that keep our values straight and have for many years.

Our Catholic bible was not formalized until around year 365. Before that it was letters and word of mouth. When I look at this history it is obvious to me there is only one authority on Jesus. I made this decision ~20 years ago after attending Christian Churches for years. They do not really follow the teaching of Jesus.

I agree with your historical facts concerning the Protestant Reformation. I researched all of this topic on the internet. What I am trying to say, is if both faiths follow the teachings (do’s and don’t’s) in roughly the same N/T, how can one faith be before the other? Is it not the same Word of God?