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Thorwald
Guest
I really find the responses to this topic humorous. We are all aware of the Protestant Reformation and its akin to ‘genocide’ of Catholics. If you notice, however, both religions believe in Christ’s teachings concerning His birth, death and resurrection, and His other teachings. The N/T emphasizes the following of the 10 commandments and the further commandment given unto us by Christ. Many of the writings concerning the Apostles/disciples teachings, are heavily laden with ‘examples’ of how to follow or not follow these commandments. The rest of the writings are mainly concerned with church hierarchy, and The Trininty and The Godhead. The balance, concerns prophecy. All Christian faiths believe these to be God’s Word (albeit, with some errors).
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Ne_OrangeKnight
Guest
And those errors are the real crux of the issue. Logic dictates that something is either true or false; it can’t be both at once. So either the Eucharist really is the Body of Jesus or it isn’t. And baptism of infants can’t be both gravely wrong and not wrong in the least. The Virgin Mary can’t have given birth to only one child in her life, and also to several. Priests have the power to forgive sins, or they don’t. The Bible is the sole rule of the Christian faith, or it isn’t.All Christian faiths believe these to be God’s Word (albeit, with some errors).
Therefore, if someone claims that (X Doctrine) is false, and someone else says that (X Doctrine) is true, they both cannot be correct. At least one of them must, necessarily, be teaching in error. But we can all agree that Jesus, being the Truth, would not teach something false, yes? So then those denominations which teach falsely can clearly not be the Church that God intended. Furthermore, they necessarily must have split off into existence after the True Church had already come into being.
Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
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Thorwald
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If Christ tells me, “Call no man on this earth [spiritual] father”, am I a non-Christian if I obey His command? If the scripture tells me, “Repent and be baptized”, am I to assume that an infant has ‘repented’, before being baptized? If the scripture does not even mention, that I need beads, in order to be a Christian and follow God’s Word, why would I assume otherwise? If Christ responded to His disciples (after they told Him that His mother and family members were outside) by saying that basically all mankind was His brethern, why would I ‘anoint’ Mary above the limits of the anointment given unto her by God, Himself? Jesus Christ was begotten as Lord of Hosts (above the angels) before mankind was even created. As a ‘Son of man’ he was ‘lower’ than the angels (Hebrews). His obedience (and patience) to God, ‘lifted’ Him up, not Mary. The list goes on and on.
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broski234
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Exactly, but we do not all agree on doctrine. Clarify something for me. Which came first, the Catholic Church or the protestant church? If you agree with me and history, then your answer will be the Catholic Church. If so, how can you disagree with the doctrines of the Church established by Christ? Doctrines are God’s words. Which of God’s words don’t you agree with? Did Jesus promise to send the Holy Spirit to guide His Church into all truth or not? And if He did, are you saying that He failed to keep His promise and that the gates of hell have prevailed over Christ’s Church?I really find the responses to this topic humorous. We are all aware of the Protestant Reformation and its akin to ‘genocide’ of Catholics. If you notice, however, both religions believe in Christ’s teachings concerning His birth, death and resurrection, and His other teachings. The N/T emphasizes the following of the 10 commandments and the further commandment given unto us by Christ. Many of the writings concerning the Apostles/disciples teachings, are heavily laden with ‘examples’ of how to follow or not follow these commandments. The rest of the writings are mainly concerned with church hierarchy, and The Trininty and The Godhead. The balance, concerns prophecy. All Christian faiths believe these to be God’s Word (albeit, with some errors).
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broski234
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Understanding the verse in its proper context is what’s important.If Christ tells me, “Call no man on this earth [spiritual] father”, am I a non-Christian if I obey His command? If the scripture tells me, “Repent and be baptized”, am I to assume that an infant has ‘repented’, before being baptized? If the scripture does not even mention, that I need beads, in order to be a Christian and follow God’s Word, why would I assume otherwise? If Christ responded to His disciples (after they told Him that His mother and family members were outside) by saying that basically all mankind was His brethern, why would I ‘anoint’ Mary above the limits of the anointment given unto her by God, Himself? Jesus Christ was begotten as Lord of Hosts (above the angels) before mankind was even created. As a ‘Son of man’ he was ‘lower’ than the angels (Hebrews). His obedience (and patience) to God, ‘lifted’ Him up, not Mary. The list goes on and on.
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Thunderbird
Guest
delurkIf Christ tells me, “Call no man on this earth [spiritual] father”, am I a non-Christian if I obey His command? If the scripture tells me, “Repent and be baptized”, am I to assume that an infant has ‘repented’, before being baptized? If the scripture does not even mention, that I need beads, in order to be a Christian and follow God’s Word, why would I assume otherwise? If Christ responded to His disciples (after they told Him that His mother and family members were outside) by saying that basically all mankind was His brethern, why would I ‘anoint’ Mary above the limits of the anointment given unto her by God, Himself? Jesus Christ was begotten as Lord of Hosts (above the angels) before mankind was even created. As a ‘Son of man’ he was ‘lower’ than the angels (Hebrews). His obedience (and patience) to God, ‘lifted’ Him up, not Mary. The list goes on and on.
Let’s say you wrote a book, a self-help book, but when you gave that book to people, all they did was take random lines out of it and quote it…wouldn’t you be mad that they’ve taken that line without so much as trying to understand the context behind it? It renders everything else you’ve written to be pointless, since they’re not reading it anyway.
I think if Protestants had it their way, the bible would only be about ten pages long and consist of nothing but one-liners. (I keed, I keed!
)Thus, if you’re going to quote scripture, at least quote the whole thing so as to understand context.
Matthew 23:8–10 - “But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ.”
And yet, Christ goes on to say a few verses later (Matthew 28:19–20) to say, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.”
Rabbi means teacher, so is he contradicting himself? Of course not. Usage of the title of Father, Teacher/Rabbi continues in the letters of the Apostles to the people, so by saying that usage of these terms in that context is unbiblical, you’re saying that the Apostles were being unbiblical as well.
Also, a little historical context will help you understand the positioning of Infant Baptism.
That dig about bead-usage is a misunderstanding of Catholic Culture. For the record, we don’t ‘need’ beads either. That is not - nor has it ever been - a ‘requirement.’
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Ne_OrangeKnight
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Well, you’ve pretty well made my reply for me. Thanks. 
Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
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1edyson
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To answer the OP’s original questions. The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church Came first.
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brazenarticle
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Yes, the Catholic faith began with Jesus and the apostles. Was it the right one for Christians? I think it was what it was cafeteria style, take what you want and leave the rest of it as many of us choose to do today. Peter was the first pope no dispute… In the time of Martin Luther, he took issue with some of these bad boys popes and leaders of the Catholic Church who could be ruthless tyrants as were many power hungry kings in those days, but the yes, the original and true faith directed by our Lord Jesus was and will always be Catholic with Peter being our first pope. Upon that rock he built his Church and yes that one is 100% Catholic. jmo
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johnnydigit
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^top 10 reasons why a child should not be given a Bible without proper guidance.If Christ tells me, “Call no man on this earth [spiritual] father”, am I a non-Christian if I obey His command? If the scripture tells me, “Repent and be baptized”, am I to assume that an infant has ‘repented’, before being baptized? If the scripture does not even mention, that I need beads, in order to be a Christian and follow God’s Word, why would I assume otherwise? If Christ responded to His disciples (after they told Him that His mother and family members were outside) by saying that basically all mankind was His brethern, why would I ‘anoint’ Mary above the limits of the anointment given unto her by God, Himself? Jesus Christ was begotten as Lord of Hosts (above the angels) before mankind was even created. As a ‘Son of man’ he was ‘lower’ than the angels (Hebrews). His obedience (and patience) to God, ‘lifted’ Him up, not Mary. The list goes on and on.
is someone a non-Christian if i give them Exodus 21 (“an eye for an eye”) and they do what it implies by seeking revenge on someone?
even a protestant pastor has no one to keep him in check. he is his church’s authority, interpreter, and pope. if people don’t like it, they leave his church and look for one that suits them. chaos insues, protestantism continues.
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Cluny
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Which came first: Protestantism or Catholicism.
The answer is neither. Orthodoxy came first.
Other than a small difference in the number of books included in the KJV Bible versus the RC Bible
Wrong.
The full KJV DOES have these books. I won’t have a mutilated KJV in my house.
The answer is neither. Orthodoxy came first.
Other than a small difference in the number of books included in the KJV Bible versus the RC Bible
Wrong.
The full KJV DOES have these books. I won’t have a mutilated KJV in my house.
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Lapell
Guest
From the start, you should learn that all the so-called “add-ons” you are referring to do come from the Holy Scriptures!
Secondly, in the early years of the Church the Church had to fight against incorrect interpretations of the Scriptures, that is, heresies. Some examples are mentionned in John’s letters and in the Book of Revelations, chapters 2 and 3, most of them not by names, but rather by a concrete description of some false things they preach or their method…
Thirdly, there might have been protests to some extent, but as for ProtestantISM, that’s quite far-fetched if you are considering things other than heresies…
ProtestantISM is said about the Protestant Reformation with good reasons, I’m afraid.
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Lapell
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Are you sure the Protestants do follow the whole of the Bible?I agree with your historical facts concerning the Protestant Reformation. I researched all of this topic on the internet. What I am trying to say, is if both faiths follow the teachings (do’s and don’t’s) in roughly the same N/T, how can one faith be before the other? Is it not the same Word of God?
Why is it , for instance, that to you sacraments are only symbolical, including the Lord’s Supper? Don’t you know that the sacraments accomplish what they are supposed to do? Have you read the whole of John 6? Didn’t you ever notice that Jesus never said to those who left Him: “Hey! Come back! I was just speaking symbolically!!!” Why didn’t He even seem to try to keep them with Him then? We are speaking here of the Son of God Himself, remember! When we receive the Eucharist at Mass (the Catholics), we do receive indeed the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, not just symbolically, but truly and concretely.
How is it? God knows, but He is also the one who told the Apostles to do this, and to pass it on to their successors. They had faith in Him, so they did as He told them, and their successors do the same out of faith in Him also…
You don’t know, I’m afraid, what you are talking about!
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tobinatorstark
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Catholicism came first. Check your history
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jblake
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Cluny;:
If not, it is an incomplete KJV. (The complete KJV includes the Anglican Canon, not the Catholic Canon.)
jonathon
Does you KJV include 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras, Epistle of Jeremiah, and Prayer of Manassas?
If not, it is an incomplete KJV. (The complete KJV includes the Anglican Canon, not the Catholic Canon.)
jonathon
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billguy
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Ahhh…here we have the crux of Thorwald’s confusion. Essentially, Thorwald is equating any organized church with the RCC, but apparently doesn’t understand that the RCC believes it has been given the keys to the Word left by Jesus and thus given the unique task of authority. The Church, according to Catholicism, was formed WHILE the Word was forming. You must accept that Jesus gave authority to Peter, when he said, “You are the rock, and on this rock I will build my Church. And Hell will not prevail against it.” I say ‘you must accept’ because, in coming to the conclusion it was given its authority by Jesus, the Catholic Church uses the same interpretive logic as protestants, the only difference is that the Catholic Church is not hypocritical(selective) in applying logic. The Church is not a *Perfect *way the Word is interpreted in the Catholic Church or any other church, but the Church is the manifestation of God’s transferred authority to interpret His Word, given to the Catholic Church. Thus Catholics believe that Christian protestant churches are more imperfect than Catholicism because they reject the authority given by Jesus and left here on Earth(as described in the Word). In essence, Catholics believe that protestants are rejecting part of the Word by rejecting Catholic authority.
In fact, you could argue that the Church began as soon as it was in God’s plan to have a disciple(Peter) to which authority was to be bestowed.
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Dee123
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You talked of how chaotic the bible studies were becoming…how about trying out a Catholic Bible study. I’m sure no one would object. Phone a church, ask the bible study leader or the pastor. I’m sure they’d let you in…
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