Which church began first?

[Scott_Lafrance]

Can I join the Curmudgeons’ Club too? :whacky:
[/quote]

Absolutely, we need a chaplain.

 

[rom323]

Apolonio:

I tried to explain that the Catholic church was built on St Peter, by Jesus Christ obviously who founded the universal church, but my friend goes on saying that Jesus couldnt have started it because in his time he was following the Jewsh traditions.

Response:
Yes, Jesus was a Jew. But He also saw Himself as the telos of the Old Covenant.

Rom323,

I think you are out of touch with contemporary biblical scholarship, both Catholic and Protestant. It has been admitted that Peter (because of his faith) was the rock Jesus was talking about. I think we should stop with all this trouble of trying to show that Peter was not the rock in Matthew 16:18

I may be out of touch with Catholic biblical scholarship but not Evangelical Christian scholarship.

I don’t know of anyone who believes that Christ built His Church on Peter! A case could be made that it was build on Peter’s statement of faith, but no knowlegable biblical scholar discounts the play on words Jesus used in His statement, "Thou are petros and upon this Petra, I will build my Church"

As far as the keys, with your comments, I can simply say that Peter got the keys at Pentecost. Please go here:

Actually, all the Apostles got the keys at Pentecost!

apolonio.blogspot.com

Go down to “Musings on the papacy.”

I know this is off topic but could you please tell me why the pope cannot heal anyone? I mean there are so many people out there that are hurting, you would think that he, being Christ’s representative on earth, could heal someone just like Peter did. I know that he is not that good at exorcisms but maybe a healing is more within his ability! Just thought I’d ask!

 

[Genesis315]

"Thou are petros and upon this Petra, I will build my Church"

Actually, Jesus was speaking Aramaic, so it would be “Thou art Kepha and upon this kepha I will build my Church”

In Greek, they couldn’t use Petra for Peter because Petra is a girl’s name.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

I thought Pentacost was the celebration of the beginings of the Catholic Church? Three days after Christ arose from the dead he appeared to his diciples and a tongue of flame appeared above each of their heads, indicating the Holy Spirit was with them. Three days after Christ’s resurrection is the beginning of the Catholic Church as celebrated by Pentacost.

 

[mtr01]

rom323:

I know this is off topic but could you please tell me why the pope cannot heal anyone? I mean there are so many people out there that are hurting, you would think that he, being Christ’s representative on earth, could heal someone just like Peter did. I know that he is not that good at exorcisms but maybe a healing is more within his ability! Just thought I’d ask!

Well for one thing, Peter was an apostle, the pope is a bishop. Two different offices, two different sets of gifts (go back and read Ephesians 4:11). Now on what Scriptural basis do you suggest that bishops (pastors) and apostles should receive the same gifts? As you should know, that assertion is anti-Scriptural.

For another thing, what is more important, spiritual healing or physical healing? According to our Lord, it is the former. What is harder, to tell someone “your sins are forgiven” or “get up and walk”?

 

[mtr01]

Kevin Walker:

I thought Pentacost was the celebration of the beginings of the Catholic Church? Three days after Christ arose from the dead he appeared to his diciples and a tongue of flame appeared above each of their heads, indicating the Holy Spirit was with them. Three days after Christ’s resurrection is the beginning of the Catholic Church as celebrated by Pentacost.

Pentacost was the 50th day after the ressurection (9 days after the Ascension).

 

[Kevin_Walker]

mtr01:

Pentacost was the 50th day after the ressurection (9 days after the Ascension).

O.K. Thanks! Pentacost is celebrated by Christians as the birthday of the Catholic Church, the same Church which extends right to the Vatican. All of Catholicism began at Pentacost.

 

[Emery]

St. Gerard:

Why didn’t they use the term Othodox Church in the Nicene Creed?

Well, you know, we still refer to ourselves as the Orthodox Catholic Church, or more formally, for instance in the reply of the Eastern Patriarchs to Pius IX’s letter, the “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church”.
St. Gerard:

Why did St. Ignatius address the Roman Church with so much more praise and respect than the other churches he wrote on his way to Martydom in 110AD?

No doubt because they were deserving of that praise. The Roman Church was the first and greatest of the churches, and it was less susceptible to heresy than the East. But it’s not as if it was totally immune – Arianism ran rampant in the West at one time, which prompted the filioque… which is a whole 'nother story.

You have to understand that the Orthodox have no problem with admitting that Rome enjoyed a primacy of honor.
St. Gerard:

Why is it that early saints in the Othodox Church can be documented through there letters and agreement with statements made at councils accepted the primacy of the Roman Church?

I don’t understand. The Orthodox still accept Roman primacy during the undivided church. But we don’t buy the ideas of universal ordinary jurisdiction, or the highly monarchial papacies of the Middle Ages. We don’t believe the consensus of the Fathers support such doctrines.
St. Gerard:

This is why they have neglected to have any councils since before they split with the Catholic Church.

Many of us also accept the 879-880 Fourth Council of Constantinople and the Palamite Council as ecumenical. Indeed, the Encyclical of the Eastern Patriarchs I mentioned earlier especially calls the 879-880 council the “Eighth Ecumenical Council”, as does the Catholic Encyclopedia. This was the council the Romans initially accepted (their legates were present), but later rejected in the 11th century, accepting instead the council of 869-870 which we regard as a robber synod.

And well, things change after the schism. The first seven great ecumenical councils were called by the Emperor, the rest were all convoked by the Pope (except for the 869-870 one, which was convoked by both Emperor and Pope).

It’s all a matter of perspective who was first, of course. You can make the argument that we split from each other, rather than one from the other… most schisms are largely due to sin on both sides and rarely simple. Even after the anathemas were exchanged, we largely remained in communion until the Crusades.

 

[Ignatius]

DEESYPAL:

My friend who is a Greek Orthodox believes that his church began before the catholic church, since St Paul preached in Corinth and began the church there. My friend also pointed out that orthodox means the right church.

I tried to explain that the Catholic church was built on St Peter, by Jesus Christ obviously who founded the universal church, but my friend goes on saying that Jesus couldnt have started it because in his time he was following the Jewsh traditions.

Im not at all familiar with the history of the Greek orthodox church
can anyone help me to shut my friend up!

The Church which came first was the undivided Catholic Orthodox Church. The Orthodox and Catholic are one church which is in split by schism.

I believe that the only reason that the separation lingers is because we, on both sides, are not working hard enough to reunite.