Which Church teachings do you struggle to accept?

[kozlosap]

Am I the only person here on CAF who struggle to accept Church teachings on different issues? I love the Mass, believe in the True Presence, and absolutely adore the Holy Mother, but there are three issues that I cannot come to grips with:

1. The ban on ABC

2.  Divorced people that cannot receive the Eucharist if they have remarried without 
     obtaining an annulment from the Church.

3.  LGBTQ individuals are expected to live celebate lives until they die.

What are the issues that you deal with and pray about on a daily basis? Thank you all , in advance for being honest.

 

[constantconvert]

Euthanasia. I think that those who are terminally ill should be able to end their lives with dignity.

However, I am not a 2000 year old extention of Christ. If we only submit to doctrine and dogma we agree with, that isn’t obedience, that’s just agreeing. Therefore the views of the Church must be right, and I must be wrong.

 

[Rau]

?..
3. LGBTQ individuals are expected to live celebate lives until they die.

Should “single” persons be added to this list of persons?

 

[Gorgias]

Am I the only person here on CAF who struggle to accept Church teachings on different issues?

Absolutely! I have a real hard time believing that all ya’ll sinners are gonna make it to heaven with me!

(Sorry… I couldn’t resist that one… )

there are three issues that I cannot come to grips with:

1. The ban on ABC

Is it ABC that you want to stand behind? After all, it’s just a ‘technology’ or a ‘therapy’. What is the principle that’s you’re having a hard time with? After all, principles are ‘issues’; pills are just prescriptions…

1.  Divorced people that cannot receive the Eucharist if they have remarried without obtaining an annulment from the Church.

Yep; this is definitely something that’s really difficult to live with, especially given the prevalence of divorce in our culture! Yet, given Christ’s own words in the Gospels, it’s a difficult one to attempt to avoid. Let’s not frame it up in the context of the Eucharist; instead, how would you reply to Jesus’ assertion that one cannot divorce and remarry without committing adultery. Is this something that you can’t accept? If not – that is, if you can accept this teaching from Jesus – how is it that (the logical extension of?) this teaching is difficult to accept?

LGBTQ individuals are expected to live celebate lives until they die.

In our culture, this is an especially difficult and sensitive issue. Yet, is it the onerous burden that society makes it out to be? ‘Celibacy’ speaks only to marriage. Is it unrealistic that the Church holds to the teaching of the Scriptures, which affirm that marriage is exclusively between a man and a woman?

On the other hand, is the difficulty that LGBTQ persons are called to be chaste? After all… all persons are called to chastity!

Yet, the call to chastity for LGBTQ persons seems more profound than the call to chastity to all persons – after all, for LGBTQ people, the call to chastity implies “no sex, ever”. That’s absolutely a heavy burden! Yet, each of us have ‘disorders’ with respect to some moral goods – for some, it’s pride; for others, gluttony; for still others, greed. All are called to temperance in the ways in which our desires diverge from God’s plan for us. Does the realization that the call to chastity for LGBTQ persons actually assert that their life situation is different from all others? Or, does it say that it’s the same struggle as others’ – but more difficult to achieve in our culture?

In other words, does this call by the Church speak to difference? Or does it speak to greater intensity?

My apologies if I’ve taken your request for a poll and turned it into a discussion of the merits of the struggles you’ve identified. I’m just trying to understand whether you’re asking for us to understand your struggles, or whether you’re asking us only to recognize that these struggles exist.

Blessings,
G.

 

[MaryT777]

Absolutely! I have a real hard time believing that all ya’ll sinners are gonna make it to heaven with me!

(Sorry… I couldn’t resist that one… )

Is it ABC that you want to stand behind? After all, it’s just a ‘technology’ or a ‘therapy’. What is the principle that’s you’re having a hard time with? After all, principles are ‘issues’; pills are just prescriptions…

Yep; this is definitely something that’s really difficult to live with, especially given the prevalence of divorce in our culture! Yet, given Christ’s own words in the Gospels, it’s a difficult one to attempt to avoid. Let’s not frame it up in the context of the Eucharist; instead, how would you reply to Jesus’ assertion that one cannot divorce and remarry without committing adultery. Is this something that you can’t accept? If not – that is, if you can accept this teaching from Jesus – how is it that (the logical extension of?) this teaching is difficult to accept?

In our culture, this is an especially difficult and sensitive issue. Yet, is it the onerous burden that society makes it out to be? ‘Celibacy’ speaks only to marriage. Is it unrealistic that the Church holds to the teaching of the Scriptures, which affirm that marriage is exclusively between a man and a woman?

On the other hand, is the difficulty that LGBTQ persons are called to be chaste? After all… all persons are called to chastity!

Yet, the call to chastity for LGBTQ persons seems more profound than the call to chastity to all persons – after all, for LGBTQ people, the call to chastity implies “no sex, ever”. That’s absolutely a heavy burden! Yet, each of us have ‘disorders’ with respect to some moral goods – for some, it’s pride; for others, gluttony; for still others, greed. All are called to temperance in the ways in which our desires diverge from God’s plan for us. Does the realization that the call to chastity for LGBTQ persons actually assert that their life situation is different from all others? Or, does it say that it’s the same struggle as others’ – but more difficult to achieve in our culture?

In other words, does this call by the Church speak to difference? Or does it speak to greater intensity?

My apologies if I’ve taken your request for a poll and turned it into a discussion of the merits of the struggles you’ve identified. I’m just trying to understand whether you’re asking for us to understand your struggles, or whether you’re asking us only to recognize that these struggles exist.

Blessings,
G.

Well said.

 

[Hans_W]

Am I the only person here on CAF who struggle to accept Church teachings on different issues? I love the Mass, believe in the True Presence, and absolutely adore the Holy Mother, but there are three issues that I cannot come to grips with:

1. The ban on ABC

2.  Divorced people that cannot receive the Eucharist if they have remarried without 
     obtaining an annulment from the Church.

3.  LGBTQ individuals are expected to live celebate lives until they die.

What are the issues that you deal with and pray about on a daily basis? Thank you all , in advance for being honest.

No, you are not the only one. And I would add euthanasia and abortion in exceptional cases.

But we are in the minority.

 

[OurLadysServant]

Am I the only person here on CAF who struggle to accept Church teachings on different issues? I love the Mass, believe in the True Presence, and absolutely adore the Holy Mother, but there are three issues that I cannot come to grips with:

1. The ban on ABC

2.  Divorced people that cannot receive the Eucharist if they have remarried without 
     obtaining an annulment from the Church.

3.  LGBTQ individuals are expected to live celebate lives until they die.

What are the issues that you deal with and pray about on a daily basis? Thank you all , in advance for being honest.

Current RC teaching for RC Catholics:
Automatic excommunication happens to those;
**
Incredulity, heresy, apostasy, schism—Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or willful refusal to assent to it. Heresy is obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth that must be believed with divine and catholic faith**. Apostasy is total repudiation of the Christian faith. Schism is the **refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or communion with the members of the **Church (CCC 2089). These sins break the bonds of unity with the offender and the Catholic Church.

Any world catholic gathering of catholic bishops and their unified council agreements and doctrines, are infallible.

Papal comments on various occasions, under specific conditions are infallible. Also, all Papal teachings RC catholics are to submit to under the mortal sin of immediate excommunication for refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff. Who is Christ’s Vicar and Steward on earth. All Catholic teachings are mandatory,

Therefore recent examples would be the entire Vatican II (which was a world council of Catholic Bishops offering unified reiteration of Catholic Doctrine) and the Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church which Pope John Paul the 2nd ordered written and he commanded afterwards “I put my Apostolic Authority on this”, as bound for the faithful to submit to under mortal sin (under the three conditions),

Automatic excommunication under the three conditions of mortal sin for RC Catholics who:
Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or willful refusal to assent to it. Heresy is obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth that must be believed with divine and catholic faith.

Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff

 

[Rau]

…And I would add euthanasia and abortion in exceptional cases.

If these things are in the list, then I think the principle of the existence of intrinsically evil acts needs to added to.

 

[Hans_W]

Current RC teaching for RC Catholics:
Automatic excommunication happens to those;
**
Incredulity, heresy, apostasy, schism—Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or willful refusal to assent to it. Heresy is obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth that must be believed with divine and catholic faith**. Apostasy is total repudiation of the Christian faith. Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or communion with the members of the Church (CCC 2089). These sins break the bonds of unity with the offender and the Catholic Church.

Any world catholic gathering of catholic bishops and their unified council agreements and doctrines, are infallible.

Papal comments on various occasions, under specific conditions are infallible. Also, all Papal teachings RC catholics are to submit to under the mortal sin of immediate excommunication for refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff. Who is Christ’s Vicar and Steward on earth. All Catholic teachings are mandatory,

Therefore recent examples would be the entire Vatican II (which was a world council of Catholic Bishops offering unified reiteration of Catholic Doctrine) and the Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church which Pope John Paul the 2nd ordered written and he commanded afterwards “I put my Apostolic Authority on this”, as bound for the faithful to submit to under mortal sin (under the three conditions),

Automatic excommunication under the three conditions of mortal sin for RC Catholics who:
Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or willful refusal to assent to it. Heresy is obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth that must be believed with divine and catholic faith.

Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff

Well, we need to fix those statistics. We’re certainly not 1.2 billion anymore.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

Selling goods for a gay wedding or selling them a house, etc.

 

[Rau]

Selling goods for a gay wedding or selling them a house, etc.

I don’t believe there is any teaching in those terms. The teaching is about participating in the sin of another. A deal of judgement is required to decide what commercial activity crosses that line.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

I don’t believe there is any teaching in those terms. The teaching is about participating in the sin of another. A deal of judgement is required to decide what commercial activity crosses that line.

See, I need something concrete. Like, “masturbating is a sin.” I understand. “Killing is a sin.” Ok. Then there is things like this. “A deal of judgment is required to decide…” Well, I’ve judged that it is unjust to tell a customer that I refuse to bake them a stinking cake. Then folks get all up in arms talking about it would be just discrimination.
OMG!!:banghead::takethat:

 

[Arizona_Fat_Gir]

Actually I used to have difficulty with cremation, but they did change that law a long time ago. Not that I like cremation, mind you, but it is a lot easier to cremate someone than go through the normal channels of the traditional funeral. I brought my husband to Arizona in the trunk of my car.

Something else kind of makes me wonder. A cousin remarried after divorcing his first wife. He claimed he tried for an annulment, but was refused. He was not a happy camper.

He told his priest at the church he attended that if he could not receive communion in that church, he would just go to another church.

He got his own way. The priest gave the couple (the cousin and his second wife) a blessing and said they could go to communion after all.

Maybe things like that go on more often than you think?

 

[Rau]

See, I need something concrete. Like, “masturbating is a sin.” I understand. “Killing is a sin.” Ok. Then there is things like this. “A deal of judgment is required to decide…” Well, I’ve judged that it is unjust to tell a customer that I refuse to bake them a stinking cake. Then folks get all up in arms talking about it would be just discrimination.

Yes, wouldn’t life be simpler if every decision could be made with the help of such clear guidelines. But nevertheless, you seem to have been able to make a decision regarding the baker’s choice - so you didn’t really need a black and white rule.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

Am I the only person here on CAF who struggle to accept Church teachings on different issues? I love the Mass, believe in the True Presence, and absolutely adore the Holy Mother, but there are three issues that I cannot come to grips with:

1. The ban on ABC

2.  Divorced people that cannot receive the Eucharist if they have remarried without 
     obtaining an annulment from the Church.

3.  LGBTQ individuals are expected to live celebate lives until they die.

What are the issues that you deal with and pray about on a daily basis? Thank you all , in advance for being honest.

I don’t have any trouble with what the Church teaches. But of course, it is always difficult to obey the Commandments because we are naturally subjects to the temptations of the flesh, the world, and the devil. But we struggle on, don’t we.

Linus2nd

 

[agnes_therese]

Current RC teaching for RC Catholics:
Automatic excommunication happens to those;
**
Incredulity, heresy, apostasy, schism—Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or willful refusal to assent to it. Heresy is obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth that must be believed with divine and catholic faith**. Apostasy is total repudiation of the Christian faith. Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or communion with the members of the Church (CCC 2089). These sins break the bonds of unity with the offender and the Catholic Church.

Any world catholic gathering of catholic bishops and their unified council agreements and doctrines, are infallible.

Papal comments on various occasions, under specific conditions are infallible. Also, all Papal teachings RC catholics are to submit to under the mortal sin of immediate excommunication for refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff. Who is Christ’s Vicar and Steward on earth. All Catholic teachings are mandatory,

Therefore recent examples would be the entire Vatican II (which was a world council of Catholic Bishops offering unified reiteration of Catholic Doctrine) and the Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church which Pope John Paul the 2nd ordered written and he commanded afterwards “I put my Apostolic Authority on this”, as bound for the faithful to submit to under mortal sin (under the three conditions),

Automatic excommunication under the three conditions of mortal sin for RC Catholics who:
Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or willful refusal to assent to it. Heresy is obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth that must be believed with divine and catholic faith.

Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff

Nobody here is talking about refusing to submit to the Church or the Pope. We are human, and we are allowed to question and to struggle.

 

[Rau]

Am I the only person here on CAF who struggle to accept Church teachings on different issues? I love the Mass, believe in the True Presence, and absolutely adore the Holy Mother, but there are three issues that I cannot come to grips with:

1. The ban on ABC

2.  Divorced people that cannot receive the Eucharist if they have remarried without 
     obtaining an annulment from the Church.

3.  LGBTQ individuals are expected to live celebate lives until they die.

What are the issues that you deal with and pray about on a daily basis? Thank you all , in advance for being honest.

The following things are all different:
a) struggle with a teaching / have doubts / vacillate in commitment;
b) know that a teaching is the truth or at least ought to be accepted, but fail to always comply;
c) hold that the Church has simply got something wrong.

I am certainly guilty of a) and b).

 

[Convert_in_99]

That unbaptized innocents (babies, small children, special needs individuals) who die without baptism might not make it to heaven, but a baptized serial killer who repents on his deathbed can?!?!

That all people who die in mortal sin are in hell.

 

[Hans_W]

The following things are all different:
a) struggle with a teaching / have doubts / vacillate in commitment;
b) know that a teaching is the truth or at least ought to be accepted, but fail to always comply;
c) hold that the Church has simply got something wrong.

I am certainly guilty of a) and b).

Good points, but do you categorically exclude (c)?

We are not talking about basic foundational beliefs, like the divinity of Christ, the Virgin Birth, the Resurrection. But receiving communion? When I grew up in Europe we were kneeling, only the priest was allowed to put the wafer on your tongue and you were forbidden to even have a coffee since midnight. That wasn’t that long ago. I know, these are all secondary factors. But I wouldn’t be surprised if you were only allowed to receive communion after a full confession of all your sins, say 500 years ago. Things do change.

Imagine 500 years ago somebody suggesting that we evolved from animals. He/she would certainly have been kicked out, if not burned alive. What was the view of the early Church on slavery? Even the question of abortion was not as clear-cut as it seems now in Catholic teaching, with figures such as St Augustine distinguishing between a vivified and an un-vivified fetus, ensouled and not yet ensouled.

 

[beleg]

I suppose this isn’t a set-in-stone teaching, but I don’t fully understand the Catholic opposition to cremation. I understand that the deceased body must be treated with respect, but I doubt the resurrected body of someone who was cremated would be any different from the resurrected body of someone who was stuck in the ground. Even if their ashes were scattered - though of course this is disrespectful to the body, and shouldn’t be done at all.

I personally would never want to be cremated, however. Even the thought freaks me out…