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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Then what are they?
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Burdock
Guest
The bible does not teach that unbaptised children are not saved. I believe that jesus would accept them with loving arms. What do you believe?
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
I believe that we cannot claim to go beyond the Church especially when it comes to matters of damnation or salvation. I believe what the Church teaches and has always taught. I do not make up my own theology as dogma based on a limited human understanding of justice, mercy, and the economy of Salvation. And I believe we are shown the path to heaven. And that includes baptism in all it’s forms.
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Bookcat
Guest
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thistle
Guest
Since becoming a Catholic in 1992 I have accepted and continue to accept ALL Church teachings.Am I the only person here on CAF who struggle to accept Church teachings on different issues? I love the Mass, believe in the True Presence, and absolutely adore the Holy Mother, but there are three issues that I cannot come to grips with:
What are the issues that you deal with and pray about on a daily basis? Thank you all , in advance for being honest.
The ban on ABCDivorced people that cannot receive the Eucharist if they have remarried without obtaining an annulment from the Church.LGBTQ individuals are expected to live celebate lives until they die.
Frankly, I don’t understand how any Catholic can have doubts about any teaching.
Christ established the Catholic Church and gave it authority to teach in matters of faith and morals. This means the Church cannot be in error in such teachings because they have the full authority of God behind them.
Anyone rejecting a teaching is rejecting God.
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Bookcat
Guest
What is needed? (for all of us …)
A renewal of the mind
“In the second verse we are given the answer: “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God…” (12: 2). The two decisive words of this verse are “transformed” and “renewal”. We must become new people, transformed into a new mode of existence.”
“Paul makes this process of “recasting” even clearer by saying that we become new if we transform our way of thinking. What has been introduced here with “way of thinking” is the Greek term “nous”. It is a complex word. It may be translated as “spirit”, “sentiments”, “reason”, and precisely, also by “way of thinking”. Thus our reason must become new. This surprises us. We might have expected instead that this would have concerned some attitude: what we should change in our behaviour. But no: renewal must go to the very core. Our way of looking at the world, of understanding reality all our thought must change from its foundations…”
~ Pope Benedict XVI
Go read the rest -there is much there for reflection:
(very rich and helpful --a very profound work):
I fixed the link! sorry it was not working!
w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino.html
(starts second paragraph–read to end -though do not miss the first paragraph on another subject…)
A renewal of the mind
“In the second verse we are given the answer: “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God…” (12: 2). The two decisive words of this verse are “transformed” and “renewal”. We must become new people, transformed into a new mode of existence.”
“Paul makes this process of “recasting” even clearer by saying that we become new if we transform our way of thinking. What has been introduced here with “way of thinking” is the Greek term “nous”. It is a complex word. It may be translated as “spirit”, “sentiments”, “reason”, and precisely, also by “way of thinking”. Thus our reason must become new. This surprises us. We might have expected instead that this would have concerned some attitude: what we should change in our behaviour. But no: renewal must go to the very core. Our way of looking at the world, of understanding reality all our thought must change from its foundations…”
~ Pope Benedict XVI
Go read the rest -there is much there for reflection:
(very rich and helpful --a very profound work):
I fixed the link! sorry it was not working!
w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino.html
(starts second paragraph–read to end -though do not miss the first paragraph on another subject…)
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kozlosap
Guest
If you truly believe what you wrote, then you must also think that there is no salvation without the Catholic Church, right? We were blessed with free will for a purpose. I do not believe that we must check our brains at the entrance to the sanctuary and grab our crayons and neither do most priests I’ve spoken with about this issue. I think if you were living in the UK or States you would meet many more Catholics with views different than your own.
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kanrok
Guest
If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself. - St. Augustine
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Bookcat
Guest
And let us remember it is not “a do-it- yourself -faith”.
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PDXSeeker_1975
Guest
As someone raised more conservatively before I ever dreamed of being a Catholic, I think my struggles early on came from the “other” side, on issues of economics, immigration, and especially the death penalty (though I know it’s not officially condemned, but it seems it might be headed that way). I am still working on this right now in light of the trial for the Boston bomber. However, understanding WHY the Church teaches what it does, I am much more at peace with these ideas.
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SAVINGRACE
Guest
Are you saying you were you unrepentant at confession? You knew you were going to deliberately do it again and then just confess and carry on? If that’s the case you were not fooling God, only yourself. I would suggest the same of the Priests in your story you tell who gave you permission.
The Priest erred in granting permission, your numerous confessions have not been absolved in the eyes of God. I suggest the same if you were unrepentant.
If I were you I’d be more concerned about that.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Wow, it is impressive that you got that soooooo wrong.
Read it again. My entire point is about the opposite of what you think happened.
A priests should NEVER give permission to do such an evil. The ONE priest in all my tiem who told me to do it was wrong, and I knew it and I was repentant at the time. In fact I had to tell him that I needed absolution and that he was wrong. I also told him if he kept on with it I would have to notify the Bishop. I’m sure he still does this.
I don’t really have to worry. I was forgiven, and I am a Catholic in full communion with the Church and currently in a State of Grace. I am quite prepared to receive the Eucharist, or die. Though, this week I would like the former…
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Abu
Guest
You need to understand what the Church teaches.
Post #173 has already given the teaching of Christ through His Church:
Vatican II, Lumen Gentium:
16. “Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.”
Further, Pope St Clement knew that non-Catholics could be saved from the beginning, for he wrote in about 95 A.D. to the Church in Corinth: “Those who repented for their sins, appeased God in praying and received salvation, even though they were aliens to God.” Catholic Apologetics Today, 1986, Fr William G Most, p 145].
Extra ecclesiam, nulla salus (literally, “outside the Church, there is no salvation”). Some people have wished to understand this saying in the most literal sense: that is, that the person who is not formally a practicing Catholic cannot be saved. The Church has condemned such an interpretation (cf. Denzinger-Schönmetzer, 3870-3873).
This is not to say that the maxim is false. Properly understood, it is quite true. The Latin word extra can mean either “without” or “outside.” The correct interpretation and sense of the maxim is that we cannot be saved without the Church. It is through the Church, which carries on and makes present the salvific work of Jesus Christ in the world, that all who are saved reach heaven (even if it is perhaps only there that they realize it). Those who, through no fault of their own, have never known Christ or his Church can still be saved. But their salvation, too, is the effect of Jesus working through his Church.** In a positive sense, this theological principle “means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body**” (CCC 846).
Encyclopedia of Catholic Doctrine, OSV].
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thistle
Guest
There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. The CCC explains what this means including those who for whom salvation might be possible without being sacramentally baptised a Catholic.If you truly believe what you wrote, then you must also think that there is no salvation without the Catholic Church, right? We were blessed with free will for a purpose. I do not believe that we must check our brains at the entrance to the sanctuary and grab our crayons and neither do most priests I’ve spoken with about this issue. I think if you were living in the UK or States you would meet many more Catholics with views different than your own.
However, for those sacramentally baptised a Catholic if they reject or have obstinate doubts about Church teachings they commit a sin of grave matter (mortal if they know the Church teaches that) and they commit heresy. Dying in that state they go to Hell.
You either believe the Catholic Church was the Church established by Christ and given authority to teach in matters of faith and morals or not. Any Catholic who believes that knows the Church cannot be in error in its teachings. If a Catholic does not believe it is the Church Christ established and given authority then they are in a state of mortal sin.
Yes God gave us freewill to reject or accept him and his Church. Rejecting Church teachings is rejecting God.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church CCC
Jim
For me, the “Outside the Church there is no salvation” quote is outdated, offensive and misleading requiring CCC’s explanaition, which looks like a tap dance.
Jim
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Bookcat
Guest
Truth cannot be outdated. One can understand it further (as the Church has done-as explained in the Catechism, St. John Paul II et al) but it remains truth.
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Bookcat
Guest
“Rather, courage is needed to adhere to the Church’s faith, even if this contradicts the “logic” of the contemporary world. This is the non-conformism of faith which Paul calls an “adult faith”. It is the faith that he desires. On the other hand, he describes chasing the winds and trends of the time as infantile. Thus, being committed to the inviolability of human life from its first instant, thereby radically opposing the principle of violence also precisely in the defence of the most defenceless human creatures is part of an adult faith. It is part of an adult faith to recognize marriage between a man and a woman for the whole of life as the Creator’s ordering, newly re-established by Christ. Adult faith does not let itself be carried about here and there by any trend. It opposes the winds of fashion. It knows that these winds are not the breath of the Holy Spirit; it knows that the Spirit of God is expressed and manifested in communion with Jesus Christ. However, here too Paul does not stop at saying “no”, but rather leads us to the great “yes”. He describes the mature, truly adult faith positively with the words: “speaking the truth in love” (cf. Eph 4: 15). The new way of thinking, given to us by faith, is first and foremost a turning towards the truth.”
~ Pope Benedict XVI
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
The quote is outdated for when it’s used it insults people of other religions and the Church has to go through explanation gymnastics.
Jim
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
I don’t think it is outdated, Perhaps as outdated as “eat my flesh”
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ahsokanerd
Guest
I have a love-hate thing with the infallibility of canonization. One one hand, I love it; after all, we confess to having communion with them in the Apostle’s Creed, and it only makes sense for the Church to define who those people are. But, on the other hand, my still-Protestant brain panics (“What if…!?”) a little when it comes to newer Saints who were involved with controversial things.
Just War/Insurrection is a little difficult for me as well.
Oh well. I hope I’ll come to appreciate the teachings in time.
Just War/Insurrection is a little difficult for me as well.
Oh well. I hope I’ll come to appreciate the teachings in time.
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