Which comes first - the marriage or the children?

[pannonius]

I made the mistake of posting to an old thread (albeit apropos) and got my hand slapped, so here’s the new thread that might help get a better response There is a troubling situation going on in my social circle that brings the prioritization of marriage vs. children to the fore in a slightly different way than I’ve found discussed in other threads. I was hoping some of you might have some insights that I could share with the couple.

In particular, I have been thinking and praying over how this prioritization comes into play when one of the spouses feels that the psychological stress that accompanies the raising of a special-needs child (for example, one with Down Syndrome or cerebral palsy) is more than they are capable of handling. It has gotten to the point where they see themselves heading for a mental breakdown, in spite of therapy and medication, and are in a place where they think that giving the child up for adoption is the only way to go, because for the sake of their mental well-being they can’t stick it out in the long run. (The alternative to adoption would be to leave their spouse and child, but they are sickened by the thought of it coming to that.)

The other spouse is not on board with either idea, being that (as others have mentioned in this thread), their Catholic wedding vows included a commitment to accept children as a blessing from God, which was unqualified as to the health of the children. They are fully supportive of seeking additional help with caretaking to ease the burden on their spouse, or even halting their own career (they currently both work) to focus on being a primary caregiver, but these aren’t necessarily feasible long-term solutions.

Putting it mildly, they are at something of an impasse. There may yet be some opportunity for prayerful marital/family counseling to resolve the situation, but the way things are headed for now, it seems like it’s only a matter of time before an ultimatum is issued: “you can have me, or have the child, but not both.”

This is not an easy situation for anyone to have to face, and it’s gotten me thinking, which would be the (more) moral option for the spouse who wishes to continue parenting?

(1) Agree to place the child with another, intact family who is seeking a special-needs child in particular (they are out there!), perhaps in an open adoption to retain some level of contact, and then work to salvage the marriage relationship.

(2) Stand by the commitment to accept children without limitation, and weather the storm if the spouse decides to leave.

I have my own thoughts on this, but don’t want to muddy the waters with my possibly errant reasoning, so I’d like to hear from others what their views are. I’d prefer to hear about rationales for this binary choice (1 or 2) before any suggestions for other options, since this is the current “reality” and there are also details I’ve left out which might preclude it.

The only thing I will add since I think it might make a difference is that this is an only child – so no effects on siblings to consider.

Thank you in advance for your insights - in the meantime, I’ll keep praying for them

 

[1ke]

They need a counselor, a social worker, and a priest.

This is not a matter for an opinion poll on the internet.

First, there is not an answer as to what is ‘more’ or ‘less’ moral. It is a **prudential matter **of what is best for the child, best of the parents, and best given the concrete circumstances of those two people and their child alone. It is not something that can be generalized or that strangers can weigh in on with any meaning.

And it is not a binary situation so you should not treat it as such. A social worker can assist with programs and options that the couple may be unaware of, from institutional care to respite care. The counselor can assist with the marital discord and open up ways of communicating. The pastor can give advice to those in his care regarding the moral considerations and can counsel them as they walk through a continuum of options.

If you get 10 different opinions here, what will you do with them? will someone really give his child up for adoption because of what someone said on this thread? Or leave his spouse because of something someone said on this thread? I sure hope not.

 

[pannonius]

First, there is not an answer as to what is ‘more’ or ‘less’ moral. It is a **prudential matter **of what is best for the child, best of the parents, and best given the concrete circumstances of those two people and their child alone.

Thank you for your considered response. Be assured that the couple are seeking guidance from such qualified individuals as you have noted. Of course, nobody is making a significant life decision based on internet feedback

I am not convinced that there isn’t an objectively “more” or “less” moral route here, for either of the parents involved. The welfare of the child factors into this of course, but the portion of your response that I’ve quoted seems to imply that there might be a scenario under which the “better” route would be for the second parent to acquiesce to the wishes of their spouse to place the child for adoption. Based on my limited understanding of Catholic teaching on the family, I am surprised to encounter this viewpoint. Could you please confirm if I have understood you correctly, and if so, would you mind elaborating?

 

[john1513]

It seems like there is a problem with the marriage or individuals, not the child. I don’t think getting rid of the child would make a situation like this better. What happens when the next child comes? Or another challenge or difficulty? One spouse threatens to leave unless someone else takes care of every one of their problems?

more than they are capable of handling

That’s everyone’s life and probably every parent.

Maybe some significant psychological help is in order or possibly a re-orientation of what the purpose of life is. This may not be a child vs. marriage problem but rather a child vs. psychological health of the parent(s) problem. These people may not be mentally stable to care for themselves, each other, or a child. Based on how you described the situation, if the child is put up for adoption, then both of these individuals should enter into significant psychiatric care as they probably will not be able live life together in their current state, with or without a child. Maybe a relative can care for the child while they receive the help they need.

 

[john1513]

It is not something that can be generalized or that strangers can weigh in on with any meaning.

If that’s the case then shut down the entire Family Life forum.

 

[dshix]

It seems like there is a problem with the marriage or individuals, not the child. I don’t think getting rid of the child would make a situation like this better. What happens when the next child comes? Or another challenge or difficulty? One spouse threatens to leave unless someone else takes care of every one of their problems?

This.

What I’m seeing here is a sign that your spouse is not willing to deal with certain kinds of suffering. Yes, it is important to be understanding, because suffering is hard, but here on this earth, suffering well is incredibly important.

 

[1ke]

Based on my limited understanding of Catholic teaching on the family, I am surprised to encounter this viewpoint. Could you please confirm if I have understood you correctly, and if so, would you mind elaborating?

I don’t think you will find anything in Catholic teaching that would say biological parents **must **parent their children, in their home, at all costs, in all situations.

A child is a gift, the supreme gift of marriage. When given that gift, a parent must make tough decisions sometimes, for the good of the child.

Catholic orphanages in many countries take children whose parents are not dead. They take children of parents who are unable to care for them. I don’t think it’s a decision a parent makes lightly.

In the case at hand you have described, it is not and need not be a *binary *situation at all. It may be a continuum of care for the child, that may see them in the care of their parents, temporarily in the care of others, or permanently in the care of others. Hopefully, the child will have a team of people and resources working on what is best for the child.

It sounds like this family has resources and institutional placement or permanently terminating their parental rights would seem to be a last resort/extreme measure. BUT, again, none of us are privy to the details of the situation. This parent might have a serious psychological condition that makes something like that the best option.

The long and the short of it is that it’s a prudential matter.

 

[kptrs]

I’m a special education teacher and I have a close relative who has special needs. I’m also married with two children under the age of five, and I struggle with mental health problems. My 2 cents:

Parenting is hard. Marriage is hard. Life is hard. I love my husband and my kids, but honestly, there are a lot of times when I can’t help feeling like I really just want to abandon it all and relieve myself of the stress, the noise, and the drama. Sometimes I just want to be alone, to have 30 seconds to myself for once. Sometimes I just want to do what I want to do or go where I want to go without having to consult with my husband or figure out what to do about childcare. Sometimes the tantrums and the crying and the sleep interruptions are too much. Sometimes I feel like I’m going to lose my mind.

But…at the end of the day, the fact remains that I chose this course, of my own free will. I vowed to stay true in good times and bad, and that includes whatever may come with raising our children. Marriage means having children and having children comes with the chance that one of them may be born with or develop a disability. We all have to play the hand we’re dealt. God gives us grace and will help us bear our crosses.

 

[kptrs]

Before I get blasted, I really do see the other side, too. It’s not unheard of for married couples to give children up for adoption for a variety of reasons. I’m just saying, we can’t pick and choose which hardships we endure and which ones we don’t.

 

[CradleJourney]

Before I get blasted, I really do see the other side, too. It’s not unheard of for married couples to give children up for adoption for a variety of reasons. I’m just saying, we can’t pick and choose which hardships we endure and which ones we don’t.

Actually, we can always choose not to endure them - that is free will. But we will have to then endure the consequences of our choice. We cannot always choose what happens to us but as long as we are conscious adults we can choose how we react to them.

The dilemma as posted seems a struggle between parental health and child health with the other parent caught in the middle if I’m understanding correctly. That’s hard. And when things are hard, people tend to want to find a clean solution to end the difficulty as quickly as possible. But like dealing with any other life-long challenge, this is going to be a step at a time issue - what needs to be done today, what needs done tomorrow for all parties involved.

I don’t see how any “solution” is possible because there’s so many changes that are probably occurring both with the child’s physical health and the adult’s mental health - and either could become life-threateningly critical at any point. You can’t just give away the child and suddenly everything’s okay with the marriage nor can you just give up on the marriage and think everything’s suddenly going to be okay for them either.

My advice to either parent would be this - do what you need to do each day to go forward with no regrets. Leave no stone unturned, no help untaken, no prayer unsaid, no hug ungiven, no unkind word spoken - and never give up hope, faith, or love.

 

[angell1]

I made the mistake of posting to an old thread (albeit apropos) and got my hand slapped, so here’s the new thread that might help get a better response There is a troubling situation going on in my social circle that brings the prioritization of marriage vs. children to the fore in a slightly different way than I’ve found discussed in other threads. I was hoping some of you might have some insights that I could share with the couple.

In particular, I have been thinking and praying over how this prioritization comes into play when one of the spouses feels that the psychological stress that accompanies the raising of a special-needs child (for example, one with Down Syndrome or cerebral palsy) is more than they are capable of handling. It has gotten to the point where they see themselves heading for a mental breakdown, in spite of therapy and medication, and are in a place where they think that giving the child up for adoption is the only way to go, because for the sake of their mental well-being they can’t stick it out in the long run. (The alternative to adoption would be to leave their spouse and child, but they are sickened by the thought of it coming to that.)

The other spouse is not on board with either idea, being that (as others have mentioned in this thread), their Catholic wedding vows included a commitment to accept children as a blessing from God, which was unqualified as to the health of the children. They are fully supportive of seeking additional help with caretaking to ease the burden on their spouse, or even halting their own career (they currently both work) to focus on being a primary caregiver, but these aren’t necessarily feasible long-term solutions.

Putting it mildly, they are at something of an impasse. There may yet be some opportunity for prayerful marital/family counseling to resolve the situation, but the way things are headed for now, it seems like it’s only a matter of time before an ultimatum is issued: “you can have me, or have the child, but not both.”

This is not an easy situation for anyone to have to face, and it’s gotten me thinking, which would be the (more) moral option for the spouse who wishes to continue parenting?

(1) Agree to place the child with another, intact family who is seeking a special-needs child in particular (they are out there!), perhaps in an open adoption to retain some level of contact, and then work to salvage the marriage relationship.

(2) Stand by the commitment to accept children without limitation, and weather the storm if the spouse decides to leave.

I have my own thoughts on this, but don’t want to muddy the waters with my possibly errant reasoning, so I’d like to hear from others what their views are. I’d prefer to hear about rationales for this binary choice (1 or 2) before any suggestions for other options, since this is the current “reality” and there are also details I’ve left out which might preclude it.

The only thing I will add since I think it might make a difference is that this is an only child – so no effects on siblings to consider.

Thank you in advance for your insights - in the meantime, I’ll keep praying for them

I would advise making permanent and irreversible decision while under an enormous amount of stress. it can really cloud one’s judgment

is it possible for the spouse who is having the isseus to just take some time for themselves. a vacation or something? work with therapists, their priest, find out some resources that can help with the disability

we don’t know all the details of the story, so it’s hard to say anything really. but I think adoption is really the extremem last resort.

take it from a child with a disability whose parents didn’t receive the news well at all. the first impulse was for my mom to drown me in the ocean and then kill herself. the second was to give me away to a priest (well, it turned out to be a protestant pastor, but still the same idea), but he obviously couldn’t take me. later on, she told f she known before I was born, then she would have aborted me.

anyways, they didn’t end up following through with any of that. my point is, emotions and feelings change. They were scared, they didn’t know what kind of future I would have. Disability was portrayed very negatively to them in the past. depending on how old the child is. stress and shock are normal reactions at first, I would say. and it might be hard on the child later on, inevitably, there will be some feeling of their parents not wanting them, if they were adopted.

I did feel that way when I first found out those things about my infancy. it’s a hard truth to live with. and as much as I wish people didn’t react that way, it’s understandable. I can’t dwell on it or have hard feelings about it. life goes on. but it doesn’t really help a person feel cherished and loved, that’s for sure. can’t lie about that

 

[angell1]

Thank you for your considered response. Be assured that the couple are seeking guidance from such qualified individuals as you have noted. Of course, nobody is making a significant life decision based on internet feedback

I am not convinced that there isn’t an objectively “more” or “less” moral route here, for either of the parents involved. The welfare of the child factors into this of course, but the portion of your response that I’ve quoted seems to imply that there might be a scenario under which the “better” route would be for the second parent to acquiesce to the wishes of their spouse to place the child for adoption. Based on my limited understanding of Catholic teaching on the family, I am surprised to encounter this viewpoint. Could you please confirm if I have understood you correctly, and if so, would you mind elaborating?

something did stant out to me though.

the parents should be trying to work out a solution together, preferably with help and (name removed by moderator)ut from those qualified to give it.

it’s not a mature adult response to give ultimatums such as “give the child away or else I’m divorcing you”

 

[egretps]

I would advise making permanent and irreversible decision while under an enormous amount of stress. it can really cloud one’s judgment

is it possible for the spouse who is having the isseus to just take some time for themselves. a vacation or something? work with therapists, their priest, find out some resources that can help with the disability

…feelings change. They were scared, they didn’t know what kind of future I would have. Disability was portrayed very negatively to them in the past. depending on how old the child is. stress and shock are normal reactions at first, I would say…

I wish people didn’t react that way, it’s understandable. I can’t dwell on it or have hard feelings about it. life goes on. but it doesn’t really help a person feel cherished and loved, that’s for sure. can’t lie about that

I think Angel1 has some very valid points.

I especially like the ‘vacation’ idea. But, more important, maybe getting to know some of those people who want downs kids or actually are parenting disabled kids and those kids who are thriving.

 

[LucyEm]

…Putting it mildly, they are at something of an impasse. There may yet be some opportunity for prayerful marital/family counseling to resolve the situation, but the way things are headed for now, it seems like it’s only a matter of time before an ultimatum is issued: “you can have me, or have the child, but not both.”

So - do it my way or I dump both of you? Is that it? What a champion.

 

[LucyEm]

…I am not convinced that there isn’t an objectively “more” or “less” moral route here, for either of the parents involved. The welfare of the child factors into this of course, but the portion of your response that I’ve quoted seems to imply that there might be a scenario under which the “better” route would be for the second parent to acquiesce to the wishes of their spouse to place the child for adoption. Based on my limited understanding of Catholic teaching on the family, I am surprised to encounter this viewpoint. Could you please confirm if I have understood you correctly, and if so, would you mind elaborating?

Could you share the particular teaching you have mind (I’ve bolded your reference to it)?

 

[mommy_k]

The effect of this on the marriage will be negative with either decision if they are not united.

When a decision is made, it is to benefit the child and should be a loving choice. If they feel that keeping the child will be a detriment for the CHILD, then a loving choice would be to ensure that the child is loved fully elsewhere.

Both parents need to sacrifice self to make the best decision for the child and look closely at the facts with this in mind.

Perhaps not an irrevocable decision …but one that gives time for the parents to explore all alternatives…each again, that benefits the child the most.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I made the mistake of posting to an old thread (albeit apropos) and got my hand slapped, so here’s the new thread that might help get a better response There is a troubling situation going on in my social circle that brings the prioritization of marriage vs. children to the fore in a slightly different way than I’ve found discussed in other threads. I was hoping some of you might have some insights that I could share with the couple.

In particular, I have been thinking and praying over how this prioritization comes into play when one of the spouses feels that the psychological stress that accompanies the raising of a special-needs child (for example, one with Down Syndrome or cerebral palsy) is more than they are capable of handling. It has gotten to the point where they see themselves heading for a mental breakdown, in spite of therapy and medication, and are in a place where they think that giving the child up for adoption is the only way to go, because for the sake of their mental well-being they can’t stick it out in the long run. (The alternative to adoption would be to leave their spouse and child, but they are sickened by the thought of it coming to that.)

The other spouse is not on board with either idea, being that (as others have mentioned in this thread), their Catholic wedding vows included a commitment to accept children as a blessing from God, which was unqualified as to the health of the children. They are fully supportive of seeking additional help with caretaking to ease the burden on their spouse, or even halting their own career (they currently both work) to focus on being a primary caregiver, but these aren’t necessarily feasible long-term solutions.

Putting it mildly, they are at something of an impasse. There may yet be some opportunity for prayerful marital/family counseling to resolve the situation, but the way things are headed for now, it seems like it’s only a matter of time before an ultimatum is issued: “you can have me, or have the child, but not both.”

This is not an easy situation for anyone to have to face, and it’s gotten me thinking, which would be the (more) moral option for the spouse who wishes to continue parenting?

(1) Agree to place the child with another, intact family who is seeking a special-needs child in particular (they are out there!), perhaps in an open adoption to retain some level of contact, and then work to salvage the marriage relationship.

(2) Stand by the commitment to accept children without limitation, and weather the storm if the spouse decides to leave.

I have my own thoughts on this, but don’t want to muddy the waters with my possibly errant reasoning, so I’d like to hear from others what their views are. I’d prefer to hear about rationales for this binary choice (1 or 2) before any suggestions for other options, since this is the current “reality” and there are also details I’ve left out which might preclude it.

The only thing I will add since I think it might make a difference is that this is an only child – so no effects on siblings to consider.

Thank you in advance for your insights - in the meantime, I’ll keep praying for them

I would tend to agree with 1ke. It is not a binary situation.

Further, you haven’t elaborated why the secondary and more morally assertive spouse has not offered the 3rd option of giving up their job to become the primary caregiver. Then the worn out spouse can keep working, perhaps more hours which certainly sounds easier for him/her.

If option 2 is possible then why is this 3rd option not possible? It’s much the same except the spouse stays .

Something doesn’t add up or I have misunderstood your presentation.

Re the marriage vows thing…we are fairly clearly talking weakness not sin. In any case it’s remarriage that possibly breaks vows not separation with remote support of children.
Putting guilt trips on persons at the end of their rope does not seem helpful.