Which Comes First?

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Isolation

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Hypothetically if God told an individual to do something sinful like say murder a person or group of people then which do you follow the testament that God gave you telling you “thou shalt not murder” or the voice of God demanding you to break that testament?

And do not tell me that God would never tell a human to commit sin. God’s morals are suppose to be absolute so when God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac he supported attempted murder only to stop it at the last second. Regardless how remorseful Abraham might of been he had to put a killing intent into his mind in order to put God above his own son. Surely God would damn any other person who put a knife at their sons throat only to be stopped by forces outside his control.
 
Isolation said:
Hypothetically if God told an individual to do something sinful like say murder a person or group of people then which do you follow the testament that God gave you telling you “thou shalt not murder” or the voice of God demanding you to break that testament?

And do not tell me that God would never tell a human to commit sin. God’s morals are suppose to be absolute so when God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac he supported attempted murder only to stop it at the last second. Regardless how remorseful Abraham might of been he had to put a killing intent into his mind in order to put God above his own son. Surely God would damn any other person who put a knife at their sons throat only to be stopped by forces outside his control.
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First of all, there is no hypothesis. Your example is bogus because it has been known for thousands of years by the faithful that Gd was testing Abraham, not prodding to sin. Abraham lived a couple of hundred years before Moses was born and well before Gd issued the Ten Commandments during the Exodus. So, theoretically there was no prohibition against murder.
Secondly, there is nothing in the Old or New Testaments where G*d has commanded anyone to commit a sin. You obviously do not know your scripture and are just trying to stir up an argument. GO AWAY TROLL! Get a life.
 
GO AWAY TROLL! Get a life.
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Really nice…

Anyways I already stated my defense, God’s morals are suppose to be absolute. Meaning even before he taught us Murder is wrong it was always wrong. So does the case of Isaac mean it was just one of the occasions where attempted murder is ok because God approved of it?

So again I ask if someone is commanded by God to do something that may not follow Catechism should they follow that voice or what the Catechism states is moral?
Secondly, there is nothing in the Old or New Testaments where G*d has commanded anyone to commit a sin.
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Anytime in the OT that God commanded a tribe be exterminated could be considered a sin. It isn’t as if its hidden from the text, they go into detail about who should be killed and who should be enslaved.
 
Well unfortuanately some people do think God is telling them to clean up the streets and kill hookers, and some do mercy killings,

but its not God telling them to do it, it is mental illness,

no matter what we do not murder.
 
You need to study the old testament and covenant theology. Look at the curses that people earned, for instance find out why Ham was cursed when he saw his ‘father’s nakedness’. Then look who the descendants of Ham were. That will help you understand that the people who Israel opposed weren’t just random people that God just decided to kill.

There is also a fundamental difference in ‘murder’ and killing.
 
God is rational, the commandment not to murder is just an expression of Natural Law, and the requirements of Natural Law are simply the valid conclusions of reason applied to human behavior. Therefore, were God to command a human being to commit murder He would be acting in a way inconsistent with His perfect Rationality. That is not possible.

In the case of Abraham, God set up something that looked like it would present a moral paradox in which Abraham could not avoid sinning- either against Natural Law or against the direct command of God. It is, of course, impossible for such a moral paradox to actually arise in a universe ruled by a good, rational, omnipotent God. Abraham had two choices, to commit what was definitely a sin and reject the command or God, or to obey and trust that something he couldn’t foresee would happen to make sense of it all. He obeyed, and his trust was vindicated.
 
Well unfortuanately some people do think God is telling them to clean up the streets and kill hookers, and some do mercy killings,
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but its not God telling them to do it, it is mental illness,
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no matter what we do not murder.
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Ok, the main reason I asked this is because I’ve been feeling scrupulous about the story of Jonah. I know what was asked of him wasn’t sinful but I did worry that if God ever say asked me personally to do something that I found questionable or possibly sinful would I have to follow that command or risk damnation?

Again like the OT shows there are some people that God feels as their creator obliged to have exterminated so would be ok to ignore a voice telling someone to wipe out say abortion clinics for example?

This is all hypothetical, the only mental illness I would even likely have is mild depression.
 
Isolation said:
Ok, the main reason I asked this is because I’ve been feeling scrupulous about the story of Jonah. I know what was asked of him wasn’t sinful but I did worry that if God ever say asked me personally to do something that I found questionable or possibly sinful would I have to follow that command or risk damnation?

Again like the OT shows there are some people that God feels as their creator obliged to have exterminated so would be ok to ignore a voice telling someone to wipe out say abortion clinics for example?

This is all hypothetical, the only mental illness I would even likely have is mild depression.
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The Catechism is trustworthy. Go by that and you won’t go wrong. Voices, OTOH, can come from various sources, not all good.
 
God will never ask you to commit any of the 10 commandments, never.

God used people in the Old Testament and when that didn’t work, he sent his Son to show us how to live.

Jesus came to show us the true heart of God, and its to love your neighbor as yourself, turn the other cheek, obey the commandments.

You only risk damnation when you don’t follow the commandments, and lead a sinful life without remorse .
 
The Catechism is trustworthy. Go by that and you won’t go wrong. Voices, OTOH, can come from various sources, not all good.
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Understood

Anyways thanks to everyone who replied, I realize its a odd question to ask but it was one that was bothering me since on more than one account people have done horrid things because a mental illness made them believe God was talking to them. I simply wanted to know if turning to the Catechism was viable when something that may or may not be of the divine speaks to you.
 
If you’re having any thoughts or hearing what you believe to be God suggesting or telling you to do something that you know to be sin-
it is not from God. **Period. **
These things or ideas do not come from God.
You should seek the advice of a priest ASAP or consider speaking to some
type of counselor in the meantime.
God Bless
 
Yeah, God in his essence is unchanging, so either God isn’t asking you to do something sinful, or it isn’t God.
 
At the time God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, this was not yet known to be a sin. In fact, it was sadly the common practice to offer human sacrifice to the gods. Abraham knew this and dreaded the fact that God was asking him to do this, but his faith was the most important to him and therefore Abraham was prepared to comply.

God was testing him and the story was meant to not only show the importance of faith but also to show that human sacrifice was never acceptable to God.
 
St. Paul said that Satan can appear as an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:14) Therefore, if you see or hear something that appears to be from God but which seems to contradict Church teaching, I suggest you take it to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, as God has not left us orphans to fend for ourselves but has placed us under their authority and properly given them the gift of discernment of spirits. (See Ephesians 4:11-14; Hebrews 13:17)
 
wjp984 said:
At the time God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, this was not yet known to be a sin. In fact, it was sadly the common practice to offer human sacrifice to the gods. Abraham knew this and dreaded the fact that God was asking him to do this, but his faith was the most important to him and therefore Abraham was prepared to comply.

God was testing him and the story was meant to not only show the importance of faith but also to show that human sacrifice was never acceptable to God.
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If it was not known to be a sin then what is the point of the story of Cain and Able? While we don’t take a literalist view of the bible, we can’t assume that Abraham thought it was perfectly acceptable to kill his son. As a descendant of Noah he would have been under the ‘7 Noahic Laws.’

Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
Establishment of courts of law

The point of the story is not that Abraham was going to murder his son for God, but that Abraham took his son up a high mountain, built and altar, stacked it with wood for a fire; but the entire time he told Isaac ‘God will provide the himself the lamb for the burnt offering.’ It was about trust. Abraham trusted God would fix it. We can’t say Abraham wouldn’t have killed Isaac. In fact, he may have even thought even if God makes me do this, he will restore my son to me. It was his faith that made him righteous.
 
Not necesarily:

There is a difference between murder and sacrifice. I know this sounds ridiculous to us but at the time, there was not the clear distinction.

Yes, Abraham would know that murder was wrong based on the Cain and Abel story, but God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to Him, which is different than murder.

So my point remains true.

To put it in perspective, what if God today wanted to make a point and completely condemn capital punishment.

God therefore commands one of us to kill a known murderer in the interest of justice. God is all knowing and therefore there is no question of innocence. The murderer is guilty and deserving of death. Would this be a sin to follow God’s command?

Now let’s say when you are about to kill this murderer and issue God’s judment, God stops you and states that capital punishment is never acceptable and that mercy is the best option even for murderers. Do you see the comparrison?
 
bmullins said:
If it was not known to be a sin then what is the point of the story of Cain and Able? While we don’t take a literalist view of the bible, we can’t assume that Abraham thought it was perfectly acceptable to kill his son. As a descendant of Noah he would have been under the ‘7 Noahic Laws.’

Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive
Establishment of courts of law

The point of the story is not that Abraham was going to murder his son for God, but that Abraham took his son up a high mountain, built and altar, stacked it with wood for a fire; but the entire time he told Isaac ‘God will provide the himself the lamb for the burnt offering.’ It was about trust. Abraham trusted God would fix it. We can’t say Abraham wouldn’t have killed Isaac. In fact, he may have even thought even if God makes me do this, he will restore my son to me. It was his faith that made him righteous.
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Not necesarily:

There is a difference between murder and sacrifice. I know this sounds ridiculous to us but at the time, there was not the clear distinction.

Yes, Abraham would know that murder was wrong based on the Cain and Abel story, but God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to Him, which is different than murder.

So my point remains true.

To put it in perspective, what if God today wanted to make a point and completely condemn capital punishment.

God therefore commands one of us to kill a known murderer in the interest of justice. God is all knowing and therefore there is no question of innocence. The murderer is guilty and deserving of death. Would this be a sin to follow God’s command?

Now let’s say when you are about to kill this murderer and issue God’s judment, God stops you and states that capital punishment is never acceptable and that mercy is the best option even for murderers. Do you see the comparrison?
 
Isolation said:
Hypothetically if God told an individual to do something sinful like say murder a person or group of people then which do you follow the testament that God gave you telling you “thou shalt not murder” or the voice of God demanding you to break that testament?

And do not tell me that God would never tell a human to commit sin. God’s morals are suppose to be absolute so when God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac he supported attempted murder only to stop it at the last second. Regardless how remorseful Abraham might of been he had to put a killing intent into his mind in order to put God above his own son. Surely God would damn any other person who put a knife at their sons throat only to be stopped by forces outside his control.
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Only if “sacrifice Isaac” meant killing him. What if it was to let him go, or never see him again? Indeed, the book of Genesis never says that Isaac saw Abraham (or vice versa) after that time, when they descended the mountain. THe Rabbis have a tradition of just that, in fact.

Sin is something that is against God’s will, so God cannot will any human being to sin. That would be like saying “I will what I do not will.” And, further, sin is something that is bad for our human nature, because God wills what is good for us. Everywhere and always. So, if God tells a person to commit a sin, either it’s not really God speaking, or the person is misunderstanding, or it’s not really a sin.
 
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