Which direction should we face when at prayer?

[romano]

Augustine:

These are all suggestions for personal piety, referring in no way about the effectiveness of prayer said in one direction or another. Our Lord taught us how to pray and it didn’t include anything about which direction to face.

You appear to be ignorant of a great many things. I would suggest that you read:

EARTHEN VESSELS: The practice of Personal Prayer According to the PatristicTradition by Gabriel Bunge, O.S.B. ISBN 0898708370

amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0898708370/qid%3D1117811034/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/103-7263732-1539835

Gabriel Bunge is an incredibly learned Benedictine monk and considerably more informed on this matter than you seem to be. His book contains a Scripture Index which runs to several hundred items.

 

[romano]

GregoryPalamas:

Romano,

I do wish people would read a thread before responding to it. It is most frustrating.

Dan L

Hi Dan:

Yes, I know what you mean. There is a class of people at CAF like that. They just cannot resist the urge to get in their two-bitsworth whether they have anything worth saying or not.

"It was said of Abba Agathon that for three years he lived with a stone in his mouth, until he had learnt to keep silence."

:bowdown2:

 

[Augustine]

romano:

You appear to be ignorant of a great many things.

You’re quite right about that.

EARTHEN VESSELS: The practice of Personal Prayer According to the PatristicTradition by Gabriel Bunge, O.S.B. ISBN 0898708370

Have you noticed the word “personal” in the title?%between%

romano:

Gabriel Bunge is an incredibly learned Benedictine monk and considerably more informed on this matter than you seem to be.

That’s not hard at all, yet I suspect that he’d agreeswith me that such practices are personal devotions, i.e., not things Catholics must do, such as kneeling before the Tabernacle or bowing in certain parts of the Creed.

 

[Augustine]

GregoryPalamas:

You know, Augustine, that presuppostion is yours not the Church’s or ours. Please, read post #9. Until you do and until you comment on that your post is a bit insulting.

I apologize if I came across as insulting, but I did read post #9 before posting.

If it’s not merely personal piety, then, please point out any magisterial reference that we must pray facing East.

I don’t ask defiantly, but inquiringly.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Augustine,

I don’t know about any magisterial pronouncements. I do know that the Church always faced East both the Eastern and the Western portions until the Renaisance. There is direction from scripture to face East but I simply don’t know about the magisterial pronouncements.

What’s offensive is the oft’ repeated comment “it doesn’t matter”. Well, if it doesn’t matter why does half of the Church do it? Why did all of the Church do it for a majority of its history? and Why is it indicated in Scripture?

Dan Lauffer

 

[Augustine]

Dan, I don’t know about any magisterial pronouncements.
Please, don’t take this the wrong way, but without them, it comes across as mere personal piety. Not that it’s bad, on the contrary. I myself love practicing personal acts of piety.I do know that the Church always faced East both the Eastern and the Western portions until the Renaisance.
You see, when you say this in the context that we must face this or that direction, it sounds as though the Church, whose head is Our Lord Himself, is not celebrating Holy Mass properly, which is not the case.

I used to attend Mass at a Melkite parish a few years ago and am well aware of some practices in the Eastern Churches. What’s offensive is the oft’ repeated comment “it doesn’t matter”.
You should understand it in a qualified way. It’s certainly not a sine qua non of prayer or of the Holy Liturgy. But feel free to correct me here, for I have to confess my ignorance about liturgical maters.Well, if it doesn’t matter why does half of the Church do it?
On the same token, if it does matter, why doesn’t half of the Church do it?Why did all of the Church do it for a majority of its history?
Again, why doesn’t the Church do it presently? I read about the Holy Father suggesting that this should be reinstituted at Mass, but I never heard about it regarding persoanl prayer.Why is it indicated in Scripture?
I’m not well versed in the Holy Scriptures, so do you mean in the OT or in the NT?

Thanks for you patience.

 

[romano]

GregoryPalamas:

What’s offensive is the oft’ repeated comment “it doesn’t matter”. Well, if it doesn’t matter why does half of the Church do it? Why did all of the Church do it for a majority of its history? and Why is it indicated in Scripture?

Dan Lauffer

Hi Dan:

I appreciate your effort but, to be quite frank, I think you are wasting your time with this fellow. He is clearly a victim of what I call the “I don’t think so” mentality. So he doesn’t think direction is important? So what?

There are many people with his sort of negative mindset, people who can be relied on to respond with an “I don’t think so.” What they fail to realize, of course, is the utter meaninglessness of their assertion.

Such folk are best ignored.

 

[Augustine]

romano:

There are many people with his sort of negative mindset, people who can be relied on to respond with an “I don’t think so.” What they fail to realize, of course, is the utter meaninglessness of their assertion.

Such folk are best ignored.

I think you’re being quite uncharitable reading your own prejudices between my lines and attributing them to me.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Augustine,

I don’t mean to be rude, but if you reject all of the points that have been made: Scriptural sources, Christ’s return, the Fathers’ opinions, what more is there to say? If you don’t wish to pray facing East then don’t.

Dan L

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I say we go to our private rooms and pray, then nobody knows what direction we’re facing so we won’t offend anyone.

Alan

 

[GregoryPalamas]

AlanFromWichita:

I say we go to our private rooms and pray, then nobody knows what direction we’re facing so we won’t offend anyone.

Alan

Alan,

If you don’t wish to take the Church’s practice and our Lord’s example into account as you pray then don’t. But I don’t see why you need to be sarcastic.

Dan L