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Drew98
Guest
Why couldn’t there be a Hell but no Heaven?
Isn’t it logically possible that Hell is the fate of all, both good and evil?
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Drew98
Guest
Why couldn’t there be a Hell but no Heaven?
Isn’t it logically possible that Hell is the fate of all, both good and evil?
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wcknight
Guest
Hell and no Heaven, that would be similar to beliefs of the ancient Greeks or Romans.
Logically, it makes more sense for God to create a system of rewards and punishments rather than only one of punishments.
God is at least as just, as logical, and as just as we are, if not infinitely more so. So if we humans can see evil being punished justly then and we humans expect the just and rightgeous to be rewarded, then certainly God in His infinite wisdom should at least do likewise.
As a parent, would it make sense for you to punish your child for doing good or helping others ?
Christ’s Peace, wc
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wcknight
Guest
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ILO
Guest
The truly worst afterlife would be being condemned for all eternity to debate with the most obstinate anti-Catholic.
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Tlaloc
Guest
Hades wasn’t really like hell. It was only a place of torment for those who were cursed by the gods (think sisyphus and tantalus). For everyone else it was simply where their souls went.
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Kevin_Walker
Guest
Been there I take it.
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Drew98
Guest
Or so you’ve been told. How do you really know?
What happens after death is completely hidden from us. We really can’t know who is being punished and who is being rewarded. Can we?
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Lillith
Guest
Hell…definately. People choose hell, God doesn’t want that for us. IMO…if we are clothed in sin and hatred when we die, and are indifferent, the light of God’s love would be like salt to a wound (thus the burning) and to get away we must, and exist in eternal darkness away from the light of God…
Nothingness is impossible IMO…I believe that we were with God before our births, and God placed us in our families (souls are always). This is nothing the church ever taught me, just my imaginings, and I imagined this after the birth of my first daughter. Look into the eyes of a new baby, as I did, and they seem so wise and knowing! Of course a couple weeks with us and they learn Earthly ways and become goofballs, but I truly believe that New babies had recently been with God.
Reincarnation…it wouldn’t be sooo bad to be my cat Rosie I think.
Nothingness is impossible IMO…I believe that we were with God before our births, and God placed us in our families (souls are always). This is nothing the church ever taught me, just my imaginings, and I imagined this after the birth of my first daughter. Look into the eyes of a new baby, as I did, and they seem so wise and knowing! Of course a couple weeks with us and they learn Earthly ways and become goofballs, but I truly believe that New babies had recently been with God.
Reincarnation…it wouldn’t be sooo bad to be my cat Rosie I think.
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wcknight
Guest
Death is hidden from us. But there have been some folks who were shown what Heaven, Hell, and even Purgatory are like. We can claim they are delusional or insane, but folks who examined them said they were not.
There are hundreds if not thousands of stories on miracles, visionaries, people who have experienced first hand what everyone hopes to see after life.
Are they are delusional and all mad men ?
Here is a for real, true to life experience for two people I knew personally. Both were PGKs (past Grand Knights) of my KofC council. Dale died the year before I became GK. Don was terminally ill in the hospital during my term.
Joe, another PGK visited Don, and Don told Joe that he talked with Dale that morning. Joe very calmly said, you know Dale is dead don’t you. Don replied yes, he did. Don was perfectly lucid, and aware. He died the next day.
Dale had told Don that everytihing was as he thought it would be.
Any being who can create another being has to be at least as intelligent as the creation itself.
No one knows 100%, but one can come to conclusions even without first hand experience or first hand knowledge…
I can’t make a car or an airplane, but I know they work. They move or fly and do what we expect. We don’t need to know the inner working of them because the do what they are advertised to do.
Someone who has never flown before, or lives in some remote town with no airplanes, can read about or hear about airplanes and can surmise that such things do exists and are as other people claim they are.
My guess is most of us don’t ever get to see someone they know come back to life and tell them how things are. A few do get that luxury. Do we believe them ? or do we chalk it all up to hysteria and delusion ?
Another friend of mine (non-Catholic) say that when she was a little girl, her mother died. She was of course very distraught, but the evening afterwards, her mother came to her and told her things would be okay. My friend remembers very cleraly that it was not a dream or her imagination.
I know these folks personally, so I know they are level headed and not prone to delusional fantasies.
Yes, I am not 100% sure. I didn’t experience what they did. But I’m as close to 100% as you can get and that is more than good enough for me…
BUT it’s as Jesus says, even IF one were to come back from the dead, there are those who will still not believe.
Until they put their hand into the wounds on His hands and through the wound on His side, they still will not believe.
regards, wc
Also, for a real interesting story from thousands of witnesses, hit this site (from another post on this forum):
Old news here, but the first time I came across it. Anyone else heard about it? Quite cool…
home.earthlink.net/~agless/Doves.htm
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john_doran
Guest
i could ask you the same thing about the occurrence of world war 2. or that your parents are actually your parents.
depends on what you mean by “know”.
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BlessedBe13
Guest
[QUOTEI wouldn’t put folks in Hell, but I’m sure there are quite a few souls down there. The serial killer who shots a bunch of people but expects to escape punishment by shooting himself. A Hitler, Mengele, Stalin, or Pol Pot who murders thousands if not millions of people, if they are not in Hell, then they are certainly in Purgatory for an awful long time. After a million years or more, it may be as close to Hell as you can imagine.
[/QUOTE]
To be quite honest, I am still trying to determine my beliefs on what happens to such people in the afterlife. I definately do not believe that Hell is compatible with an all-loving, or even an all-just God, because no-one was evil all of their life. They may have done evil things, but it is not just to punish them for eterntiy, when they were not evil throughout their life. I tend to believe that what one does comes back to them in one way or another in this life. It may not always seem it, but perhaps it just isn’t always obvious, or not the type of punishment that others would like to see happen. I can accept the concept of purgatory more than a concept of hell, because however long or short time in purgatory is, it is not eternal. But, I am still developing my beliefs on that.
[/QUOTE]
To be quite honest, I am still trying to determine my beliefs on what happens to such people in the afterlife. I definately do not believe that Hell is compatible with an all-loving, or even an all-just God, because no-one was evil all of their life. They may have done evil things, but it is not just to punish them for eterntiy, when they were not evil throughout their life. I tend to believe that what one does comes back to them in one way or another in this life. It may not always seem it, but perhaps it just isn’t always obvious, or not the type of punishment that others would like to see happen. I can accept the concept of purgatory more than a concept of hell, because however long or short time in purgatory is, it is not eternal. But, I am still developing my beliefs on that.
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BlessedBe13
Guest
Kevin Walker:
Probably not, who knows. But anyone who read Greek or Roman mythology would know that this is how Hades is described.
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Sowndog
Guest
Hell would be a lot worse. If I ceased existing I wouldn’t care - how could I?
If there is no heaven, then life is meaningless; you just die. Is there any point in loving, feeling or doing if you just die and that’s it?
If I die and cease to be, then my life wasn’t neccessarily any more futile than the next guy’s: I won’t remember that I lived my life as a Christian and it won’t affect me because I won’t exist. BUT if I die and go to hell, then all my attempts at being good will have accounted for nothing. My life will have been less worthwhile than someone who managed to get into heaven.
Therefore, I desperately desire to get to heaven. If I go to hell I’ll be really angry with myself. If I cease to exist I won’t care.
If there is no heaven, then life is meaningless; you just die. Is there any point in loving, feeling or doing if you just die and that’s it?
If I die and cease to be, then my life wasn’t neccessarily any more futile than the next guy’s: I won’t remember that I lived my life as a Christian and it won’t affect me because I won’t exist. BUT if I die and go to hell, then all my attempts at being good will have accounted for nothing. My life will have been less worthwhile than someone who managed to get into heaven.
Therefore, I desperately desire to get to heaven. If I go to hell I’ll be really angry with myself. If I cease to exist I won’t care.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
I chose reincarnation because you don’t have a choice if you are a cockroach or a cat. Going to Hell is ultimately something that one chooses. I’ve already been nonexistant and it wasn’t so bad.
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need_to_know
Guest
Hell, because then I would know I would never be with God. At least with the other two I wouldn’t have to worry about that.
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wcknight
Guest
Not completely, it’s only hidden if you don’t believe anyone’s testimony. IF you discount the writers of scriptures, the saints who have been given visions of Heaven and Hell, and folks who have had experience with other apparitions, death is completely hidden as you say.
It’s like all the UFO sightings. Until you see one yourself, you chalk it up to mass hysteria, hallucinations, etc. But after reliable witnesses tell the same or similar stories, it becomes more real, and IF you happen to witness an event that has no other explanation (and you’re not plastered or delusional
, it becomes irrefutable proof.Not all folks who have visions are nuts or irrational. When enough stable lucid people can attest to the same or similar phenomena, the credibility of such things gets real close to a sure thing. And of course when it really happens to you (as when you die), it is a sure thing. But then it may be too late (you could have had a V8
.wc
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Binney
Guest
HECK! Hell of course.:yup:
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SamCA
Guest
Don’t be so sure! Heck is getting awful sick of being second dog, and have been considering implementing a number of measures to improve the quality of their torment.
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