Which garb looks best for an adult male altar server?

[phil19034]

It makes no sense to me either. The same applies to many of my friends who are either priests or deacons.

The objection seems to be that the bishops are worried that a deacon might be seen wearing a clerical shirt while he is accompanying his wife; and that this would scandalize people. I’m not saying it makes sense, only that this seems to be the explanation.

Personally, I believe the real underlying motivation is a sort of anti-clericalism among certain bishops. I do not mean any in particular (not by name), but just a certain undefined sub-set of the whole.

When I was a deacon, I was required to wear clerical attire whenever I was out in public (within reason, of course). It never caused any problems.

There are quite a few entirely artificial distinctions the U.S. bishops try to make with regard to permanent vs. transitional deacons. It is almost as if some of them just do not want to admit that permanent deacons are actually ordained.

I haven’t seen statistics, but I do think that the U.S. has the highest proportion of permanent deacons. Maybe the numbers have some influence on the attitude. I don’t know.

There is a certain recommendation out there (which has no binding authority, of course) which suggests that there should be different ways of addressing written correspondence to deacons, depending on which type. It’s very strange.

Just so that other readers understand what I mean there: the Church does not issue binding laws on how one writes an envelope.

Some bishops outright refuse to entertain the idea of ordaining permanent and transitional deacons at the same ceremony; not just as a matter of scheduling, but to the extent that they seem to want to say that there are 2 entirely different Orders of Diaconate.

The U.S. bishops are really struggling with the entire concept of restoring the permanent diaconate. Oddly enough, in terms of numbers, they’ve embraced it enthusiastically. They just don’t seem to know what to do about it.

Yes. Indeed.

I have never seen that done. I have had occasion to see altar boys wear a shirt with a white collar (entirely by coincidence and very rarely) under the cassock, something like a low cut turtleneck, and I admit that it does “look better.” Still, the burden does not outweigh the benefit.

In my Archdiocese, Permanent Deacons are allowed to wear a Roman Collar with a Gray Shirt with “on duty,” but many older ones do not.

When I see the gray shirt, I always assume it’s a Deacon (unless international priests are present).

It’s funny, because because if anyone is going to “scandalize” me, it’s going to be Anglican, Episcopal, or Lutheran male ministers wearing the Roman Collar. For example: I once saw a man wearing the Roman Collar who had a nose ring and earrings. I was shocked… but then within a minute I realized he was a Lutheran. And on Holy Saturday, I saw a man with a Roman Collar with tons of liberal bumper stickers, finally then noticing the Episcopal Church sticker he had in his window.

Personally, I think it’s a GOOD thing to see more people in Roman Collars and/or habits. I always feel “warm and fuzzy” when in the presence of someone who has given their lives to Christ… wearing the Collar or habit is simply an easy way for people to spot a person of God, which helps us with our daily conversions.

God Bless

 

[phil19034]

Question though: I read that all lay servers should wear the same thing (at least in the USA).

Meaning that child and adult altar servers should be uniform, regardless of age.

Is there any truth to this?

 

[FrDavid96]

Question though: I read that all lay servers should wear the same thing (at least in the USA).

Meaning that child and adult altar servers should be uniform, regardless of age.

Is there any truth to this?

There is no law on the matter.

There is a suggestion made by the USCCB Committee on the Liturgy (again, mere suggestions) that all servers should wear the same garb.

usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/frequently-asked-questions/guidelines-for-altar-servers.cfm

There are suggestions, which local pastors are free to either embrace or ignore.

The GIRM says this
339. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, acolytes, altar servers, readers, and other lay ministers may wear the alb or other appropriate and dignified clothing.

I don’t know what it says for other nations (I could look, but don’t see the point).

 

[Phemie]

The GIRM says this
339. In the Dioceses of the United States of America, acolytes, altar servers, readers, and other lay ministers may wear the alb or other appropriate and dignified clothing.

I don’t know what it says for other nations (I could look, but don’t see the point).

339.In the dioceses of Canada, acolytes, altar servers,readers, and other lay ministers may wear the alb or other suitable attire.

 

[zab]

Question though: I read that all lay servers should wear the same thing (at least in the USA).

Meaning that child and adult altar servers should be uniform, regardless of age.

Is there any truth to this?

I’m thinking that when there is a need to request the services of an adult altar server, it is because there are no younger altar servers available.

 

[Phemie]

I’m thinking that when there is a need to request the services of an adult altar server, it is because there are no younger altar servers available.

Often if weekday Mass is in the morning there are no young altar servers. That’s the reason my dad served Mass after he retired. In doing so he resumed a ministry to which he’d devoted 27 years before getting married at age 39,

 

[FrDavid96]

Phemie:
By the way, when I wrote “I don’t see the point” what I meant was that I did not see the point in doing the research myself. I can answer for my own country. Since I do not know what applies to other countries, I’m not going to attempt posting it.

 

[Solomonson]

In my Archdiocese, Permanent Deacons are allowed to wear a Roman Collar with a Gray Shirt with “on duty,” but many older ones do not.

When I see the gray shirt, I always assume it’s a Deacon (unless international priests are present).

It’s funny, because because if anyone is going to “scandalize” me, it’s going to be Anglican, Episcopal, or Lutheran male ministers wearing the Roman Collar. For example: I once saw a man wearing the Roman Collar who had a nose ring and earrings. I was shocked… but then within a minute I realized he was a Lutheran. And on Holy Saturday, I saw a man with a Roman Collar with tons of liberal bumper stickers, finally then noticing the Episcopal Church sticker he had in his window.

Personally, I think it’s a GOOD thing to see more people in Roman Collars and/or habits. I always feel “warm and fuzzy” when in the presence of someone who has given their lives to Christ… wearing the Collar or habit is simply an easy way for people to spot a person of God, which helps us with our daily conversions.

God Bless

We have three permanent deacons in my parish. Two are partial to loud aloha shirts, khakis and deck shoes. The third wears a beautiful black cassock and highly polished black Corcoran military boots.

One day we were going to lunch after a Mass and I said “let’s go!” I was in awe as he stood next to the open trunk of his car as he shed his collar, cassock, boots and socks within 30 seconds. Under his cassock he was wearing a long-sleeved black Glock t-shirt and walking shorts. I was impressed.

 

[Solomonson]

Question though: I read that **all lay servers should wear the same thing **(at least in the USA).

Meaning that child and adult altar servers should be uniform, regardless of age.

Is there any truth to this?

I know that at least in the past, males wore cassock/surplice, while females wore albs at the National Shrine and the Basilica at Notre Dame. Not sure if it’s still that way.

 

[tafan]

The U.S. bishops are really struggling with the entire concept of restoring the permanent diaconate. Oddly enough, in terms of numbers, they’ve embraced it enthusiastically. They just don’t seem to know what to do about it.

.

I agree with this point Father. It is somewhat I thread drift, but I will give what I think in our diocese is another example of this “not knowing what to do about it”. Deacons are not allowed to be employees of the parish they are assigned to work. Now, most deacons still have to work to support their family, so they have to be employed somewhere. But the prohibition of them being employed by their parish means that very critical jobs, in particular most DREs, are left to lay people who have a lower level of education in theology and pastoral care. We have deacons who must go through a very rigorous formation, and then we can’t use them for jobs which they seem extremely qualified. It makes no sense to me.

 

[tafan]

May I say that I have seen adult male altar servers should wear nice “street clothes”, ie business casual attire. I have seen that done in other countries, and at daily masses in this country, and it works well IMO. Its not an option on the poll.

 

[Phemie]

May I say that I have seen adult male altar servers should wear nice “street clothes”, ie business casual attire. I have seen that done in other countries, and at daily masses in this country, and it works well IMO. Its not an option on the poll.

As I recall that’s how Dad dressed for daily Mass. Sport jacket & dress pants. A big change from the cassocks and surplices he’d been wearing from 1925-1952.

I still have his last surplice. It was presented to him all folded accordion style and tied up when he retired as head altar server after his marriage. I’d love to have it mounted in a shadow box along with the rosary he was presented for his 25th anniversary as a server. But that would require me to find a fabric expert at a museum because I don’t dare untie and unfold that garment myself.

 

[TK421]

I would want to wear some kind of Jedi looking robe but I’ve never seen a parish use brown before. With a hood and preferably a large iron claymore strapped over my back and wrapped in freshly slain bearhide. Are altar clothes something the diocese would decide or does each parish just order whatever?

We’re an impoverished parish in the desert that can’t pay our gas bills so we just have those thin white albs and that is it. At least I think they’re albs.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

It makes no sense to me either. The same applies to many of my friends who are either priests or deacons.

The objection seems to be that the bishops are worried that a deacon might be seen wearing a clerical shirt while he is accompanying his wife; and that this would scandalize people. I’m not saying it makes sense, only that this seems to be the explanation.

Personally, I believe the real underlying motivation is a sort of anti-clericalism among certain bishops. I do not mean any in particular (not by name), but just a certain undefined sub-set of the whole.

When I was a deacon, I was required to wear clerical attire whenever I was out in public (within reason, of course). It never caused any problems.

There are quite a few entirely artificial distinctions the U.S. bishops try to make with regard to permanent vs. transitional deacons. It is almost as if some of them just do not want to admit that permanent deacons are actually ordained.

I haven’t seen statistics, but I do think that the U.S. has the highest proportion of permanent deacons. Maybe the numbers have some influence on the attitude. I don’t know.

There is a certain recommendation out there (which has no binding authority, of course) which suggests that there should be different ways of addressing written correspondence to deacons, depending on which type. It’s very strange.

Just so that other readers understand what I mean there: the Church does not issue binding laws on how one writes an envelope.

Some bishops outright refuse to entertain the idea of ordaining permanent and transitional deacons at the same ceremony; not just as a matter of scheduling, but to the extent that they seem to want to say that there are 2 entirely different Orders of Diaconate.

The U.S. bishops are really struggling with the entire concept of restoring the permanent diaconate. Oddly enough, in terms of numbers, they’ve embraced it enthusiastically. They just don’t seem to know what to do about it.

Yes. Indeed.

I have never seen that done. I have had occasion to see altar boys wear a shirt with a white collar (entirely by coincidence and very rarely) under the cassock, something like a low cut turtleneck, and I admit that it does “look better.” Still, the burden does not outweigh the benefit.

Ways of addressing: Yup. Around here, transitional deacons are “Rev. Mr.” Permanent deacons are “Deacon.” Definitely sends the message that there are two orders of Deacon - or at least “high” and “low” deacons. At some point these kinds of restrictions would seem to be disrespectful if not abusive.

 

[phil19034]

I agree with this point Father. It is somewhat I thread drift, but I will give what I think in our diocese is another example of this “not knowing what to do about it”. **Deacons are not allowed to be employees of the parish they are assigned to work. ** Now, most deacons still have to work to support their family, so they have to be employed somewhere. But the prohibition of them being employed by their parish means that very critical jobs, in particular most DREs, are left to lay people who have a lower level of education in theology and pastoral care. We have deacons who must go through a very rigorous formation, and then we can’t use them for jobs which they seem extremely qualified. It makes no sense to me.

That’s a shame. In our Archdiocese, while most Permanent Deacons work secular jobs, there are a number of them who work for the Archdiocese or parishes. I personally know of at least two who are Parish Administrators for the same parish they are assigned to as Deacon (though 1 was hired as a Parish Administrator at his parish while still assigned to another one as Deacon, but was later transferred to he now is both at the one parish).

And I know of two Deacons in another Diocese where they both are employed by the same parish they are assigned to as Deacon.

I agree that Deacons should be the first place the Church looks to hire paid positions, but still of course hiring the best person for the job. A Deacon should not be hired simply because he’s a Deacon, the best person should be hired. But all things being equal between two candidates, a Deacon should be preferred.

God Bless

 

[tafan]

That’s a shame. In our Archdiocese, while most Permanent Deacons work secular jobs, there are a number of them who work for the Archdiocese or parishes. I personally know of at least two who are Parish Administrators for the same parish they are assigned to as Deacon (though 1 was hired as a Parish Administrator at his parish while still assigned to another one as Deacon, but was later transferred to he now is both at the one parish).

And I know of two Deacons in another Diocese where they both are employed by the same parish they are assigned to as Deacon.

I agree that Deacons should be the first place the Church looks to hire paid positions, but still of course hiring the best person for the job. A Deacon should not be hired simply because he’s a Deacon, the best person should be hired. But all things being equal between two candidates, a Deacon should be preferred.

God Bless

I think in our parish, the deacons, one of which I strongly suspect would prefer to work for the parish, would be the best person for the job. A previous pastor wanted to hire one of our deacons as a pastoral associate, and was told by the diocese he could not.

I know of a deacon who does work as a business manager for a parish (or did as of a couple of years ago), but was not the parish he was assigned to as deacon.

 

[Pat_the_elder]

May I say that I have seen adult male altar servers should wear nice “street clothes”, ie business casual attire. I have seen that done in other countries, and at daily masses in this country, and it works well IMO. Its not an option on the poll.

I realise this is an American thread, but I must admit that here in Scotland it’s quite usual to see an older man serving at morning Mass, smartly dressed, suit collar and tie. On the question of addressing Deacons, I call ours ‘Dick’: that’s his name and I’ve known him since before he was a Deacon. I might be wrong but I’d feel a little false shouting ‘Morning Deacon, how’s the grandson/granddaughter/dog’. as he spends a good bit of time walking all three.