Which Gospel is your favorite? / Justification by faith and/or works?

[MiserereMei25]

I like the brevity of Mark. I am also amazed by how much of what a Jesus did is recorded in Mark. The Gospel of Mark depicts how powerful Our Blessed Lord is.

 

[chrisjb]

Cathoholic:

But are there ANY OTHER categories of “works” that you can think of??

No, seeing as Paul has already stated that we are saved by faith apart from works no less than three times in about 11 verses after condemning all mankind by the law, I think that covers it in context.

If you are referring to your posting 117 as the example of scripture, once again, Paul is explicitly calling out works of the law, not all works. This is consistent with this effort to call out Jewish believers who boast of a special relationship by virtue of the Jewish laws. What other laws are there? There are only the Jewish laws in any context here. He can’t be talking about anything else. And just as Cathoholic asked, what other works are there in contrast, because he is clearly making a contrast here (see again Rom 2:6-7 - everlasting life for those who persevere in good works, also known later as fruits of the spirit)

 

[Cathoholic]

chrisjb . . .

If you are referring to your posting 117 as the example of scripture, once again, Paul is explicitly calling out works of the law, not all works.

That is exactly right Chris.

Hodos, I will try to get back here later with some follow-up.

Do you NEED to be transformed by Christ, or is “covering” adequate?

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Cathoholic . . .

Man on his own regarding circumcision or other Mosaic Law = Not salvific. Check
Man on his own regarding ANY type of work. = Not salvific. Check
(So far. You and I are agreeing here Hodos.)

.

But are there ANY OTHER categories of “works” that you can think of??

Hodos reply?

“No”.

No, seeing as Paul has already stated that we are saved by faith apart from works no less than three times in about 11 verses after condemning all mankind by the law, I think that covers it in context.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

None of the other Gospels in my opinion show the crowds loving Jesus like their no tomorrow to switching and shouting “Crucify Him!” Mark makes this transition painfully clear and always gets to me a bit when I read it - beautiful writing

 

[chrisjb]

Man on his own regarding circumcision or other Mosaic Law = Not salvific. Check
Man on his own regarding ANY type of work. = Not salvific. Check
(So far. You and I are agreeing here Hodos.)

For the record I agree here. I think the Catholic distinction is that Faith and Works are both required for salvation, neither one alone, with Faith being the prerequisite or starting point, while works being necessary to show a “living” Faith (anyone correct me if I am wrong).

 

[Cathoholic]

chrisjb . . .

For the record I agree here. I think the Catholic distinction is that Faith and Works are both required for salvation, neither one alone, with Faith being the prerequisite or starting point, while works being necessary to show a “living” Faith (anyone correct me if I am wrong).

Good points chrisjb but I am going to another area.

Hodos, I want to wait for you to respond first at this point so I know where you are coming from. Then I will take this deeper (but I don’t want to go in the wrong direction so Hodos I need your (name removed by moderator)ut at this point).

 

[Cathoholic]

Evidently Hodos is not going to reply.

Hodos only discussed Old Covenant works of law such as circumcision which are not salvific.

And other works ON YOUR OWN (even in the New Covenant), which are also not salvific.

But Hodos has never addressed a third catagory.

Hodos has never addressed God WORKING in you and through both for the will and good pleasure of the Father.

I specifically showed everybody here (Galatians 6:7-8) earlier how a person CAN sew to eternal life.

The justification by faith alone paradigm does not ALLOW you to work or “sew” unto eternal life.

But the Holy Spirit and St. Paul DO teach this.

(This is probably WHY Hodos is not answering here.)

His belief tradition as not supported by the Bible in this area.

• The Holy Spirit = You CAN (in the Spirit) sew unto eternal life.
• Galatians 6:7-8 = You CAN (in the Spirit) sew unto eternal life.
• The Catholic Church = You CAN (in the Spirit) sew unto eternal life.
• St. Paul = You CAN (in the Spirit) sew unto eternal life.
• Cathoholic = You CAN (in the Spirit) sew unto eternal life.
• Hodos = You CANNOT sew unto eternal life in ANY circumstance.

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Once again . . . .

Man on his own regarding circumcision or other Mosaic Law = Not salvific. Check
Man on his own regarding ANY type of work. = Not salvific. Check
(So far. You and I are agreeing here Hodos.)

Cathoholic . . .

But are there ANY OTHER categories of “works” that you can think of??

Hodos reply?

“No”.

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And (minor spelling and syntax change for clarity) . . .

GALATIANS 6:7-8 7 Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For
he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption;
but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Notice there is some sewing that you can do (in which you CAN) reap unto eternal life St. Paul teaches. (But it HAS to be UNITED to the Spirit of God.)

 

[Gabika50]

Just got to James 2:17; faith and works go hand and hand. It is not one or the other.