Which harms marriage more, state gay marriages or liberal Church annulments?

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A Catholic woman wrote a priest in great agony. Her husband of twenty years (Catholic marriage) and five children, had abandon her for an adulterous relationship. She had found out that he was in the Catholic annulment process. She had begged the annulment tribunal to leave her marriage in tact. She begged that God’s commandment against adultery hold strong to protect her in her hour of need. She felt her husband should face the decision to repent and reunite with her or face the judgement day consequences of a life of adultry. Both the priest and the annulment tribunal told her that her husband’s unnulment was none of her business. The tribunal granted the unnulment.

A friend of mine was showing me pictures of his brother’s wedding. I said, “What kind of Church is that? It sure looks like a Catholic Church!” My friend said, “Oh, it is a Catholic Church. My brother got his four previous marriages annuled and his wife got her five marriages annuled. They wanted a nice Catholic wedding to please mom.”

Moses, then Jesus, sum up God’s commandments by saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself”. The reason that, “Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery!” is a “love your neighbor” commandment, is because sexual relations with people other than your spouce is an act of hatred and abandonment against your spouce. Adultery is also a crime against the body of the Church because in seduces others of the flock into the sin of adultery. To deteriorate marriage through liberal annulments seems to be an act of hatred against the people that God’s commandment against adultery was designed to protect.

NAB LEVITICUS 19:18

(God sums up the commandments in Old Testament)

"You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. "
NAB MATTHEW 7:12 The Golden Rule. (Jesus sums up the commandments in the New Testament)

"Treat others the way you would have them treat you: this sums up the law and the prophets." Jesus never told Caesar how to lead. Jesus gave Church leaders authroity over those who believe in his promise of eternal life. State gay marriage is an abomination. However, God and the Church have little control over what the state does. The Church has control over what the Church does. Protecting spouces, and the body of the Church, as God does in His commandments, should be the focus of Church leaders. The liberal destruction of the God’s bond of marriage through liberal annulments within the Church is a far greater disaster than the evil things the world does.

I vote that liberal annulments are far more distructive to Christ’s Church than state gay marriages.

What do you think?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
I think there should be at least one more option. The fact that so many folks can get married in the Church without understanding what the Church’s teachings on marriage are. The are allowed to marry in the church even if the are cohabiting, practicing birth control, etc. This is far too common and is what leads to the high number of annulments.
 
Steven Merten:
A Catholic woman wrote a priest in great agony. Her husband of twenty years (Catholic marriage) and five children, had abandon her for an adulterous relationship. She had found out that he was in the Catholic annulment process. She had begged the annulment tribunal to leave her marriage in tact. She begged that God’s commandment against adultery hold strong to protect her in her hour of need. She felt her husband should face the decision to repent and reunite with her or face the judgement day consequences of a life of adultry. Both the priest and the annulment tribunal told her that her husband’s unnulment was none of her business. The tribunal granted the unnulment.

A friend of mine was showing me pictures of his brother’s wedding. I said, “What kind of Church is that? It sure looks like a Catholic Church!” My friend said, “Oh, it is a Catholic Church. My brother got his four previous marriages annuled and his wife got her five marriages annuled. They wanted a nice Catholic wedding to please mom.”

Moses, then Jesus, sum up God’s commandments by saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself”. The reason that, “Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery!” is a “love your neighbor” commandment, is because sexual relations with people other than your spouce is an act of hatred and abandonment against your spouce. Adultery is also a crime against the body of the Church because in seduces others of the flock into the sin of adultery. To deteriorate marriage through liberal annulments seems to be an act of hatred against the people that God’s commandment against adultery was designed to protect.

NAB LEVITICUS 19:18

(God sums up the commandments in Old Testament)

"You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD. "
NAB MATTHEW 7:12 The Golden Rule. (Jesus sums up the commandments in the New Testament)

"Treat others the way you would have them treat you: this sums up the law and the prophets." Jesus never told Caesar how to lead. Jesus gave Church leaders authroity over those who believe in his promise of eternal life. State gay marriage is an abomination. However, God and the Church have little control over what the state does. The Church has control over what the Church does. Protecting spouces, and the body of the Church, as God does in His commandments, should be the focus of Church leaders. The liberal destruction of the God’s bond of marriage through liberal annulments within the Church is a far greater disaster than the evil things the world does.

I vote that liberal annulments are far more distructive to Christ’s Church than state gay marriages.

What do you think?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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First I have to say that i am sorry for you struggle and pain… It is truly a sorrow when a marriage fails…

I have to say of course that I can’t speak to your annulment obviously and only God knows the validity of the annulment that was granted to your spouse…

I must say that i am a little surprised though… I have been been personally aware of three seperate annulments, and to my surprise all three took 2 plus years to complete, and all three we said to have had clear grounds…

you may find comfort in the article at this link… it might explain a few things for you…catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0381.html

I wish you peace… God Bless You and Your Family… 👍
 
Are the annulments liberal or were the marriages liberal? The fact is there is inadequate marriage preparation by both the church and by parents. Priests are marrying people they shouldn’t.Parents aren’t raising good marriage material. And most of them know better. Liberal marriages are damaging the church. Liberal annulments are damaging the church.
 
I think there should be a third option: selfishness.

When people think only of themselves, they will kill their marriages. It is the #1 threat to marriages. Nothing else even comes close. “homosexual unions” That’s a result of selfishness. “liberal annulments?” same thing. Both result from liberalism which basically says “selfishness is good.”

To paraphrase a RAID commercial: Selfishness kills marriages DEAD.
 
Is it established that annulments are granted too broadly or without due diligence? I don’t think so.

But it is a tragic thing that such recourse is so often sought.

tee
 
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Seatuck:
Are the annulments liberal or were the marriages liberal? The fact is there is **inadequate marriage preparation **by both the church and by parents. Priests are marrying people they shouldn’t.Parents aren’t raising good marriage material. And most of them know better. Liberal marriages are damaging the church. Liberal annulments are damaging the church.
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well said. Bravo!! Except, I disagree with the part in red. It is the children of my generation that are getting married now. I can assure you most of my generation is a mess morally and just now gettng their act together. Too late for their children. Far too late. I don’t want the rules for an annulment to be changed. I want marriage prep to look more like boot camp.
:cool: 😉
 
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tee_eff_em:
Is it established that annulments are granted too broadly or without due diligence? I don’t think so.

But it is a tragic thing that such recourse is so often sought.

tee
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Is it established that divorce is granted too broadly or without due diligence? Is annulment Ok but divorce is not OK?
 
Why is it “liberal Church annulments”? Why the loaded language?

STATE sponsored “gay marriage” strikes at the HEART of the institution of marriage by attempting to redefine marriage.

Church annulments are meant to establish that a sacramental marriage never existed in the first place.

BIG, BIG difference.

Naturally, we fallible humans (and I’m sure every tribunal has its share) can make mistakes. I have deep sorrow and sympathy for this woman mentioned. But what are we going to do? Are we to stop recognized church law because some people “might” misuse it somehow, even inadvertently? Good grief, how could we ever do anything anywhere if we are always concerned about SITUATIONAL ETHICS? Nothing is EVER going to be perfect, satisfy everyone, work perfectly. That is a sad fact, and when WE are the ones who suffer it is easy to say, “Why me?”

The fact remains that there are marriages which were not sacramental. If it is a “sin” to declare a valid marriage invalid, likewise it is a sin to declare an invalid marriage valid, that we might not suffer from “liberal” Church annulments.

In fact, I’m in an annulment process right now. My ex decided he wanted to marry another woman (she’s Greek Orthodox, he was Protestant, we were married in church, 20 years, 3 children). He converted, HE went through an annulment process in the Greek Orthodox church (which I never saw, was never contacted, etc.) and had his ceremony with the whole 9 yards, etc.

In my case, I have reasons far and above even the heinous adultery/ divorce/ remarriage for my case. It took me months to even consider annulment–I too took marriage vows for better or for worse, but no matter what the decision, I will abide by it and bless God for it, no matter what the effect will be on me personally, whether I feel the verdict is “correct”, whether it will ease me temporally or spiritually or not. I am putting my case to God, as I have every right to do.

Please don’t judge most of us seeking annulments as trying to cop out, or tribunals as being too liberal, or people in the situation as selfish, stupid, etc. We’re people just like you. We aren’t trying to remake God or His laws for selfish reasons, for the most part (naturally, I’m sure there are some who will abuse the process). In my case, I am not, have not, and do not plan to date, let alone marry, anyone else. I’m not trying to “get” something to which I’m not entitled, or reap “benefits”, or have “Catholic divorce” so that I can marry again.

I agree with the poster who said that a third option would also be good–SELFISHNESS. We see selfishness in both gay marriage AND in those who would attempt to MISUSE annulments but not in annulments per se. Wouldn’t you agree?
 
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Ken:
Is it established that divorce is granted too broadly or without due diligence? Is annulment Ok but divorce is not OK?
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According to the Church, my friend’s brother and his wife, with an accumulation of nine annulments, so far, now has a marriage equivalent to someone who faithfully spends fifty years, through sickness and health, in good times and bad, with their spouce. If they had not gotten the nine annulments they would be in a constant state of adultery through divorce.

In other words, yes! The Church beleives that annulment, regardless of whether a person has had one, ten or a hundred annulments, is OK and even one divorce is not OK.

A friend of mine was showing me pictures of his brother’s wedding. I said, “What kind of Church is that? It sure looks like a Catholic Church!” My friend said, “Oh, it is a Catholic Church. My brother got his four previous marriages annuled and his wife got her five marriages annuled. They wanted a nice Catholic wedding to please mom.”

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
Steven Merten:
According to the Church, my friend’s brother and his wife, with an accumulation of nine annulments, so far, now has a marriage equivalent to someone who faithfully spends fifty years, through sickness and health, in good times and bad, with their spouce. If they had not gotten the nine annulments they would be in a constant state of adultery through divorce.

In other words, yes! The Church beleives that annulment, regardless of whether a person has had one, ten or a hundred annulments, is OK and even one divorce is not OK.

A friend of mine was showing me pictures of his brother’s wedding. I said, “What kind of Church is that? It sure looks like a Catholic Church!” My friend said, “Oh, it is a Catholic Church. My brother got his four previous marriages annuled and his wife got her five marriages annuled. They wanted a nice Catholic wedding to please mom.”

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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Perhaps a better term would be Catholic Divorce. It’s allowed for Catholics, but anyone else getting divorced is destroying the institution of marriage.
 
<<Perhaps a better term would be Catholic Divorce. It’s allowed for Catholics, but anyone else getting divorced is destroying the institution of marriage.>>

😦 Sigh.

Would you mind reading my post just above, and then seeing if you want to repeat your statement? Or maybe just perhaps change your point of view to be a little less Pharisitical?

In His peace and love. . .
 
State gay marriages, I think, harm marraige more. This is what redefines “marraige”. Once gay people can marry, then it will open the door to so many other kinds of “marraige”. We definitely don’t want polygamal marraige, or animal-human marraige. This will come about if the man-woman institution is violated.
 
Church annulments are meant to establish that a sacramental marriage never existed in the first place.

That’s true. But it seems to just push the question back one step further: Why have so many invalid marriages taken place?

Couples thought they were entering a valid marriage, but they really weren’t, because one or both parties were insufficiently prepared, or lacking in psychological maturity, or some other ground that rendered the marriage void from the outset. How can any couple now know if they are validly married?

I’m not sure, but it seems that no-fault divorce may have preceded the boom in annulments. With no-fault divorce, no one needs to have “grounds” for divorce anymore. The end result is that either party can simply walk away at any time. The concept of no-fault divorce essentially destroys the validity of marriage vows; it makes them meaningless. “For better or worse, for richer or poorer, till death,” means nothing if the parties realize that in reality they can walk away whenever it gets difficult.

I have an elderly Aunt who married very young, in the Church. The guy left her a few months later. She says that her request for an annulment was denied. She later met and married a very kind man. They were together for over 60 years, until his death. She attended Mass every Sunday but refrained from communion the entire time, until his declining health made marital relations an impossibility.

I don’t know what’s changed. I feel sorry for young couples today because it seems to me that even as they recite their vows, they have no real guarantee of permanence.

JimG
 
State marriages have nothing to do with the Sacrament anyway. What about Green Card marriages, for example? I honestly don’t believe that gay marriage deeply harms the Sacrament, though I think it can be used to do so. Obviously we have the right as citizens to work for laws that reflect our values, but ultimately a Catholic should be focused on their faith and Church first, and the rampant abuse of the Sacrament of marriage within the Church, under the hypocracy of Sacramental Oaths, is the true blasphemy against God, IMHO.
 
Tantum ergo:
Why is it “liberal Church annulments”? Why the loaded language?
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I want to differenciate bettween my friend and his wife with an accumulation of nine Church annulments and say if five or ten Catholics per year out of a billion Catholics got annulments.

We both agree that God hates divorce, correct? We know from scriptures that God authorized Church leader (Moses) allowed divorce, but Jesus is not happy about it. Church leaders, evidentally, had the authority to do so, but, according to Jesus, this was not really the will of God. I cannot help but assume that authorized Church leaders (Pope John Paul II) are not really doing the will of God, by allowing liberal annulments, either.

NAB MARK 10:2

Then some Pharisees came up and as a test began to ask him whether it was permissible for a husband to divorce his wife. In reply he said, “What command did Moses give you? They answered, "Moses permitted divorce and the writing of a decree of divorce.” But Jesus told them: "He wrote that commandment for you because of your stubbornness. At the beginning of creation God made them male and female; for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and the two shall become as one. They are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore let no man separate what God has joined." Back in the house again, the disciples began to question him about this. He told them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and the woman who divorces her husband and marries another commits adultery.” **NAB MARK 10:17 **

"Good Teacher, what must I do to share in everlasting life? Jesus answered, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not kill; You shall not commit adultery;’” **NAB MALACHI 2:16 **

For I hate divorce, says the LORD, the God of Israel, And covering one’s garment with injustice, says the LORD of hosts; You must then safeguard life that is your own, and not break faith.

geocities.com/athens/forum/3325/divorce.html

So how do we clean up the mess?
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
Tantum ergo said:
<<Perhaps a better term would be Catholic Divorce. It’s allowed for Catholics, but anyone else getting divorced is destroying the institution of marriage.>>

😦 Sigh.

Would you mind reading my post just above, and then seeing if you want to repeat your statement? Or maybe just perhaps change your point of view to be a little less Pharisitical?

In His peace and love. . .
Click to expand...

Lots of people in society who seek divorce are in the same situation. Does the Church approve of their divorce?
 
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luckyirishguy14:
State gay marriages, I think, harm marraige more. This is what redefines “marraige”. Once gay people can marry, then it will open the door to so many other kinds of “marraige”. We definitely don’t want polygamal marraige, or animal-human marraige. This will come about if the man-woman institution is violated.
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Is the door closed now? Why will gay marriage open it?

Does divorce or Catholic annulment open the door? Both redefine marriage as less than a life long commitment. So does the Pauline Privilege.

Does contraception open the door? It removed reproduction from the definition.
 
I think you may be right that annulments may be granted too liberally. But then again, you you may not be correct. I am not a canon lawyer. But I know that gay marriages are always invalid and objectively mortally sinful.
 
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