Which is better for society: Capitalism or Communism?

[Dempsey1919]

I do not vote, and I have never voted. A lot of people say I am stupid for not exercising my democratic rights, but I don’t think so. The reason I don’t vote is because I don’t really have any strong political beliefs, and I don’t subscribe to any political ideology. I won’t vote until I know what I’m voting for. I make all of my decisions based on the teachings of the Catholic Church. I am completely ignorant when it comes to politics and government.

I know that there is Communism on the left, democracy in the centre, and fascism on the right. I also know that democratic governments can be slightly to the left, or slightly to the right. Political parties can be classed as socialist, or capitalist, left or right. It seems to me that politics is basically capitalism v socialism. I want to know which is better for society: Capitalism or Socialism?

The USA has always been a capitalist stronghold. America seems to despise communism and socialism. Why is this? My country (UK) and Canada seem to be more friendly towards socialism, as we both have free, national healthcare and other socialist policies. What is better for society? Total capitalism, or a society which has some socialist policies?

As a Catholic, I use the teachings of the Church to help me make important decisions. I want to vote according to the teachings of the Catholic Church. With this in mind, should a Catholic vote for socialist government or capitalist government? Which political ideology shares most in common with the doctrines of the faith?

I tend to think that socialism is more in line with Catholic teaching, because these governments provide free healthcare to the poor, welfare to the unemployed, and welfare to the disabled. Socialist governments look after the workers by nationalising industries. In comparison, capitalism appears to be cold and callous. It enables the rich to exploit the poor. Within capitalism, the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer. Is this a fair assessment?

I want my vote to help the poor, the weak, the old, and the vulnerable. I want to make Church social teaching become a reality. Should I be a capitalist or a communist?

Which is better for a society: Capitalism or Communism?

 

[royal_archer]

I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. (Although purist hung up on semantics will disagree)
Here is how I look at it. You have essentally two types of ecconomy. based on the level of government control. Capitalism is structured by the market with no governement control. Socialism is structured with government control. Communityism (as is used in this discussion) is unstructured without government interferance and provides relief for those who are disadvantaged under a pure capitalist system. Anarchy is the releif system for those who are disadvantaged under a socialist system (such as the black markets).

I consider all of the countries that have claimed to be communist to essentially be Socialist. I believe there is goodness in a community that voluntarily shares resources. We see this to great effect in the charities, social organizations, and families of this country. This voluntary communal living is very complimentary to a capitalist understructure. I believe this is what self proclaimed communist portray as what they want to instill in governments. Unforunately instead of this they wind up reverting to socialism where they take by force and give with prejudice.

If you consider communism to be voluntary charity, or a voluntary communal approach to living, then it is good and is very compatible with capitalism. If you consider communism to be the forced redistribution of wealth, it is evil.

 

[Newbie2]

I agree. They are not mutually exclusive. What gets in the way are the power-hungry and greedy, in both systems.

“Properly run Socialism” is better than the other two, methinks.
Run the country as the Apostles ran the early Christian community.

However, it is pie-in-the-sky, since we aren’t a nation of Christians.

BTW, you should vote. Check out the candidates, see who best is likely to put into practice Catholic ideals (even though neither is Catholic), use your conscience and vote, even if it’s third or fourth party.

Not voting is irresponsible, methinks, and if I can be bold enough to say so, spits of the graves of all those who gave their lives to uphold the ideals of democracy in this country.

 

[estesbob]

I do not vote, and I have never voted. A lot of people say I am stupid for not exercising my democratic rights, but I don’t think so. The reason I don’t vote is because I don’t really have any strong political beliefs, and I don’t subscribe to any political ideology. I won’t vote until I know what I’m voting for. I make all of my decisions based on the teachings of the Catholic Church. I am completely ignorant when it comes to politics and government.

I know that there is Communism on the left, democracy in the centre, and fascism on the right. I also know that democratic governments can be slightly to the left, or slightly to the right. Political parties can be classed as socialist, or capitalist, left or right. It seems to me that politics is basically capitalism v socialism. I want to know which is better for society: Capitalism or Socialism?

The USA has always been a capitalist stronghold. America seems to despise communism and socialism. Why is this? My country (UK) and Canada seem to be more friendly towards socialism, as we both have free, national healthcare and other socialist policies. What is better for society? Total capitalism, or a society which has some socialist policies?

As a Catholic, I use the teachings of the Church to help me make important decisions. I want to vote according to the teachings of the Catholic Church. With this in mind, should a Catholic vote for socialist government or capitalist government? Which political ideology shares most in common with the doctrines of the faith?

I tend to think that socialism is more in line with Catholic teaching, because these governments provide free healthcare to the poor, welfare to the unemployed, and welfare to the disabled. Socialist governments look after the workers by nationalising industries. In comparison, capitalism appears to be cold and callous. It enables the rich to exploit the poor. Within capitalism, the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer. Is this a fair assessment?

I want my vote to help the poor, the weak, the old, and the vulnerable. I want to make Church social teaching become a reality. Should I be a capitalist or a communist?

Which is better for a society: Capitalism or Communism?

Communism has failed everytime it has been tried. Fascism, BTW, is left wing .

 

[sarah_anne_628]

I do not vote, and I have never voted. A lot of people say I am stupid for not exercising my democratic rights, but I don’t think so. The reason I don’t vote is because I don’t really have any strong political beliefs, and I don’t subscribe to any political ideology. I won’t vote until I know what I’m voting for. I make all of my decisions based on the teachings of the Catholic Church. I am completely ignorant when it comes to politics and government.

I know that there is Communism on the left, democracy in the centre, and fascism on the right. I also know that democratic governments can be slightly to the left, or slightly to the right. Political parties can be classed as socialist, or capitalist, left or right. It seems to me that politics is basically capitalism v socialism. I want to know which is better for society: Capitalism or Socialism?

The USA has always been a capitalist stronghold. America seems to despise communism and socialism. Why is this? My country (UK) and Canada seem to be more friendly towards socialism, as we both have free, national healthcare and other socialist policies. What is better for society? Total capitalism, or a society which has some socialist policies?

As a Catholic, I use the teachings of the Church to help me make important decisions. I want to vote according to the teachings of the Catholic Church. With this in mind, should a Catholic vote for socialist government or capitalist government? Which political ideology shares most in common with the doctrines of the faith?

I tend to think that socialism is more in line with Catholic teaching, because these governments provide free healthcare to the poor, welfare to the unemployed, and welfare to the disabled. Socialist governments look after the workers by nationalising industries. In comparison, capitalism appears to be cold and callous. It enables the rich to exploit the poor. Within capitalism, the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer. Is this a fair assessment?

I want my vote to help the poor, the weak, the old, and the vulnerable. I want to make Church social teaching become a reality. Should I be a capitalist or a communist?

Which is better for a society: Capitalism or Communism?

A mixed economy is best for society and is implicated as a preferable government by the catholic church.

The difference between the US and ‘socialist’ countries…or even the Big Two political schools of thought…is which should be favored…socialism or capitolism. My personal belief is in the latter.

The reason why capitolism works is because it ‘capitolizes’ on the good and evil nature of man. Socialism works against our nature and tries to suppress the ‘greedy’ through coersion and force. This simply isn’t practical.

As a Christian. our primary concern isn’t which is better, capitolism vs. socialism…it is obeying Christ. Jesus told us to go out and make disciples of men, baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He also charged us to love our neighbors as ourselves and to help the poor, needy and down trodden. He meant for us to do it ourselves, not rely on the government.

I prefer a system that fosters more individual freedom…particuarly RELIGIOUS freedom and the left leaning school of thought is generally not religious-friendly…, whereas the right tends to favor religious freedom. Not to mention…the majority of socialist minded people also tend to be in favor of abortion…but on the other hand, the right overwhelmingly tends to favor capitol punishment which also goes against church teachings.

 

[sarah_anne_628]

I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. (Although purist hung up on semantics will disagree)
Here is how I look at it. You have essentally two types of ecconomy. based on the level of government control. Capitalism is structured by the market with no governement control. Socialism is structured with government control. Communityism (as is used in this discussion) is unstructured without government interferance and provides relief for those who are disadvantaged under a pure capitalist system. Anarchy is the releif system for those who are disadvantaged under a socialist system (such as the black markets).

I consider all of the countries that have claimed to be communist to essentially be Socialist. I believe there is goodness in a community that voluntarily shares resources. We see this to great effect in the charities, social organizations, and families of this country. This voluntary communal living is very complimentary to a capitalist understructure. I believe this is what self proclaimed communist portray as what they want to instill in governments. Unforunately instead of this they wind up reverting to socialism where they take by force and give with prejudice.

If you consider communism to be voluntary charity, or a voluntary communal approach to living, then it is good and is very compatible with capitalism. If you consider communism to be the forced redistribution of wealth, it is evil.

This is why communes have been very successful. The Shakers are a ‘communist’ society…as are the Amish. They have managed to endure longer than Communist Regimes.

Another reason for their success is their size. Socialism on the large scale is ineffective and oppressive. The individual gets lost in the shuffle of beaurocracy. On a smaller scale…where you know most of the names of faces around you, it works because we care about the individual and we know their particular needs.

As Catholics and Christians we have failed. In our parishes, there should not be a single person on welfare because the community is picking up the slack. But since our fellow parishoners are not getting the help they need from the Church community, they turn to the government.

 

[Pius_IX]

This is why communes have been very successful. The Shakers are a ‘communist’ society…as are the Amish. They have managed to endure longer than Communist Regimes.

Right, but they arent exactly ‘communist’. They all own their own property. There is no common ownership, at least not on a large scale. You might be able to call them ‘free market communes’, or something like that, as they sell their goods to travelers and tourists at market rates, and have unequal wealth.

To one who is well-studied in history, I am surprised anyone is asking if communism is better than the free market. Communism, in order for it to ‘work’, requires alot of force and coercion. I get a real hoot listening to some leftists who whine that ‘real communism’ has never been tried. I got news for them - their policies require force used on a massive scale. The free market, while imperfect in the sense that some will get hurt or ruined in it, will always be preferable.

 

[Dempsey1919]

Here is how I look at it. You have essentally two types of ecconomy based on the level of government control. Capitalism is structured by the market with no governement control. Socialism is structured with government control.

Based on this, I think it would be fair to say that Capitalism provides more freedom for individuals to accumulate wealth. Each individual would be free to use his own initiative to earn a living without any limitations placed upon him by government. However, I think Capitalism would make it easier for those in positions of power to exploit the vulnerable; for example, poor individual farmers would find it impossible to compete with a large farming corporation or company. The larger company would be able to flood the market with cheaper products and the poor farmers would be driven out of business.

Governmental control of the markets would level the playing field by subsidising the poorer farmers, and preventing the larger companies from gaining too large a share of the market. Socialist governments would probably prevent companies from going bankrupt and save many jobs in the process. The only drawback is that this government interference would give an unfair advantage to many companies, and prevent many entrepreneurs from accumulating wealth.

I believe there is goodness in a community that voluntarily shares resources. We see this to great effect in the charities, social organizations, and families of this country.

Christian capitalists would be able to donate sizeable amounts to charity. I suppose Capitalism is only bad if the companies neglect to share their wealth with those less in need. I believe that a person who benefits from a society should attempt to give back to that society. History has shown that wealthy capitalists are able to make a great difference to the world. Look at the work of Andrew Carnegie and his brilliant acts of philanthropy.

Socialist governments pass laws to protect the poor and the disadvantaged of society, but capitalism allows individuals to share their wealth and prosperity with others. Socialism forces the community to care for the poor, but capitalism gives the poor a chance to accumulate wealth, and it gives the rich the freedom to perform acts of philanthropy and charitable works. Capitalism and Christianity would go perfectly together because capitalism promotes freedom to build wealth, and Christ encourages us to use our wealth to help others. While socialism cares for the poor, it also restricts the ability of the individual to perform acts of charity and philanthropy.

I agree. They are not mutually exclusive. What gets in the way are the power-hungry and greedy, in both systems.

I definitely agree with this statement. I think both systems have their benefits. Greed and power ruin both systems and cause most of the problems.

As a Christian our primary concern isn’t which is better, capitolism vs. socialism…it is obeying Christ. Jesus told us to go out and make disciples of men, baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He also charged us to love our neighbors as ourselves and to help the poor, needy and down trodden. He meant for us to do it ourselves, not rely on the government.

I agree, but what system of government makes it easier for us to live according to the teachings of Christ? What form of government do you think Christ would support?

With this in mind, does anyone know the Church’s stance on politics? I know that Archbishop Fulton Sheen was a fierce opponent of Communism but I never really found out why.

On a smaller scale…where you know most of the names of faces around you, it works because we care about the individual and we know their particular needs.

Do you think a capitalist society with a strong emphasis on charity is better than a socialist governemnt? A capitalist country would make it easier for people to become wealthy, and then share that wealth with those they deem most in need. Do you agree?

To one who is well-studied in history, I am surprised anyone is asking if communism is better than the free market. Communism, in order for it to ‘work’, requires alot of force and coercion. I get a real hoot listening to some leftists who whine that ‘real communism’ has never been tried. I got news for them - their policies require force used on a massive scale. The free market, while imperfect in the sense that some will get hurt or ruined in it, will always be preferable.

Why is the free market better than communism?

I know most communist countries have failed, but have they really been given a fair chance? Take Cuba for example. They are a Communist country and probably will continue to be so for many years. They are very poor, but would they be as poor if the USA lifted the economic restrictions placed upon them?

Russia is worse now than it was during the USSR. Many Russians wish that Communism would return because they feel that Capitalism and democracy has failed.

 

[royal_archer]

This is why communes have been very successful. The Shakers are a ‘communist’ society…as are the Amish. They have managed to endure longer than Communist Regimes.

Another reason for their success is their size. Socialism on the large scale is ineffective and oppressive. The individual gets lost in the shuffle of beaurocracy. On a smaller scale…where you know most of the names of faces around you, it works because we care about the individual and we know their particular needs.

As Catholics and Christians we have failed. In our parishes, there should not be a single person on welfare because the community is picking up the slack. But since our fellow parishoners are not getting the help they need from the Church community, they turn to the government.

And how would you know if there were needy in the parish? We frequently have collections (money, food, other stuff) for the needy but I have never seen any need in our parish. If a person fell on hard times how would we know?

 

[Pius_IX]

Why is the free market better than communism?

I know most communist countries have failed, but have they really been given a fair chance? Take Cuba for example. They are a Communist country and probably will continue to be so for many years. They are very poor, but would they be as poor if the USA lifted the economic restrictions placed upon them?

Russia is worse now than it was during the USSR. Many Russians wish that Communism would return because they feel that Capitalism and democracy has failed.

Based on your posts, I am going to assume you have some belief that a centrally planned economy is a good thing. Please note that in my first reply, I mentioned the force that is needed to maintain a ‘functioning’ communist state. For instance, not only can I not really own property, I cannot sell the property I currently ‘posses’. But let’s say I do it anyway on the black market, or at least try to. To prevent market forces from working, the state needs a large secret police apparatus basically everywhere. Please explain to me how this is better?

Now, on to your example of Cuba. True, Cuba is still basically ‘communist’, but ever since Raul Castro became Presidente, he has allowed some market goods and services, unlike his commie brother. Now you’re correct that the seemingly-endless embargo hasnt done any good. I totally agree with you there - it should be ended immediately. But guess what? Most other countries ignore the embargo, and trade openly with Cuba - and they are still one of the poorest places in the New World.

Russia was for many years after the fall of the central Soviet state run by corrupt former communist party bosses. You will hear mention of the ‘oligarchs’ that plundered the country during Yeltsin’s reign. That is all true. Russia, however, is in a slow but steady recovery. The situation is not ideal right now, I admit. Russians might miss the world power and prestige of the Soviet Union, but as Russia recovers from being a communist basket case in a few decades the Soviet state will seem irrelevant.

In the end, your first question might best be replied with this simple sentence - capitalism is unequal distribution of wealth - and communism is equal distribution of poverty. Which would you prefer?

 

[royal_archer]

Right, but they arent exactly ‘communist’. They all own their own property. There is no common ownership, at least not on a large scale. You might be able to call them ‘free market communes’, or something like that, as they sell their goods to travelers and tourists at market rates, and have unequal wealth.

To one who is well-studied in history, I am surprised anyone is asking if communism is better than the free market. Communism, in order for it to ‘work’, requires alot of force and coercion. I get a real hoot listening to some leftists who whine that ‘real communism’ has never been tried. I got news for them - their policies require force used on a massive scale. The free market, while imperfect in the sense that some will get hurt or ruined in it, will always be preferable.

As far as I am concerned, when force or coersion is applied it is no longer communism but socialism. Amish communities are an excelent example of capitalism and true communism (not socialism) in action.

Of course in an Amish society, of someone does not pull their own weight they can be shunned. We can not completely do that because of the socialist forces at work in our society.

 

[KingAlfred]

“Which is better for society: Capitalism or Communism?”

Communism prohibits belief in God. It’s totally incompatible with Christianity. Don’t even consider it as a political option, ever.

 

[royal_archer]

Based on this, I think it would be fair to say that Capitalism provides more freedom for individuals to accumulate wealth. Each individual would be free to use his own initiative to earn a living without any limitations placed upon him by government. However, I think Capitalism would make it easier for those in positions of power to exploit the vulnerable; for example, poor individual farmers would find it impossible to compete with a large farming corporation or company. The larger company would be able to flood the market with cheaper products and the poor farmers would be driven out of business.

That is like saying that pro basketball players are exploiting me because I can’t play basketball as well. If someone is less effective as a farmer than their competition, they ahv two choices, continue farming as a hobby that generates less money or go into another line of work.

Governmental control of the markets would level the playing field by subsidising the poorer farmers, and preventing the larger companies from gaining too large a share of the market. Socialist governments would probably prevent companies from going bankrupt and save many jobs in the process. The only drawback is that this government interference would give an unfair advantage to many companies, and prevent many entrepreneurs from accumulating wealth.

What that does is makes the tax payers liable for the less efficient farming methods.

Christian capitalists would be able to donate sizeable amounts to charity. I suppose Capitalism is only bad if the companies neglect to share their wealth with those less in need. I believe that a person who benefits from a society should attempt to give back to that society. History has shown that wealthy capitalists are able to make a great difference to the world. Look at the work of Andrew Carnegie and his brilliant acts of philanthropy.

Ditto for Gates and many others.

Socialist governments pass laws to protect the poor and the disadvantaged of society, but capitalism allows individuals to share their wealth and prosperity with others. Socialism forces the community to care for the poor, but capitalism gives the poor a chance to accumulate wealth, and it gives the rich the freedom to perform acts of philanthropy and charitable works. Capitalism and Christianity would go perfectly together because capitalism promotes freedom to build wealth, and Christ encourages us to use our wealth to help others. While socialism cares for the poor, it also restricts the ability of the individual to perform acts of charity and philanthropy.

You are making a false assumption that socialist countries make laws for the good of society. It is more common that they pass laws to gain more power for those who are in control. If throwing a bone to the poor helps to expand their power, they will do that but they will only do so as long as it is politically advantageous. Socialism only cares about power of the state.

I agree, but what system of government makes it easier for us to live according to the teachings of Christ? What form of government do you think Christ would support?

There is a difference between ecconomic structures and systems of governments. There is one theme through out the Bible Love and free will, love can not exist with out fee will. So which ever form of government allows the most room for love and free will is be default the best.

With this in mind, does anyone know the Church’s stance on politics? I know that Archbishop Fulton Sheen was a fierce opponent of Communism but I never really found out why.

Communism is never applied as a voluntary communal living. In moder politics it is a euphanism for Socialism which is inherrently evil.

Do you think a capitalist society with a strong emphasis on charity is better than a socialist governemnt? A capitalist country would make it easier for people to become wealthy, and then share that wealth with those they deem most in need. Do you agree?

It also gives every individual an opportunity to become wealty.

Why is the free market better than communism?

I know most communist countries have failed, but have they really been given a fair chance? Take Cuba for example. They are a Communist country and probably will continue to be so for many years. They are very poor, but would they be as poor if the USA lifted the economic restrictions placed upon them?

With the USSR, the Eastern Block, and China all supporting socialism, I don’t see how the us embargo on Cuba has made much of a difference. Also, the block was because of human rights abuses, not because they agreed to share things among themselves.

Russia is worse now than it was during the USSR. Many Russians wish that Communism would return because they feel that Capitalism and democracy has failed.

You have a massive country full of people who are use to being told what to do and use to running to the government to solve their personal problems. It will take them a while to get used to the responsibilities that come with freedom. In many ways it is like the slaves who after the war, just became employees of their former masters esentially doing the same thing for substanance and they did for substanance under slavery. Some people just like the sense of comfort that comes with living in bondage.

 

[Pius_IX]

As far as I am concerned, when force or coersion is applied it is no longer communism but socialism. Amish communities are an excelent example of capitalism and true communism (not socialism) in action.

Of course in an Amish society, of someone does not pull their own weight they can be shunned. We can not completely do that because of the socialist forces at work in our society.

And once again; they their own private property, sell at market rates, and use currency (an often-forgotten plank of the early Soviet Union). I doubt their farms are ‘collective’, maybe down to a family. I do not believe (but I admit - I havent studied this really well) they have collectively-owned property.

A small commune, using their own property and having all members within volunteering to such a system is fine. Anything beyond the small scale is escapist fantasy. A ‘world commune’ would only work with a world community of saints.

 

[royal_archer]

And once again; they their own private property, sell at market rates, and use currency (an often-forgotten plank of the early Soviet Union). I doubt their farms are ‘collective’, maybe down to a family. I do not believe (but I admit - I havent studied this really well) they have collectively-owned property.

A small commune, using their own property and having all members within volunteering to such a system is fine. Anything beyond the small scale is escapist fantasy. A ‘world commune’ would only work with a world community of saints.

I didn’t say they had community property. I was refering to the community events and the way they will pull together as a commuity to help each other out. Barn raisings being the most visible example.

 

[Pius_IX]

I didn’t say they had community property. I was refering to the community events and the way they will pull together as a commuity to help each other out. Barn raisings being the most visible example.

Yes, and I find that all to be admirable. I wish we had more of that in our communities.

 

[sarah_anne_628]

And how would you know if there were needy in the parish? We frequently have collections (money, food, other stuff) for the needy but I have never seen any need in our parish. If a person fell on hard times how would we know?

Good question. I don’t know.

I suppose my statement is more idealistic.

 

[Peccavi]

Jesus shared out the five loaves and fishes with the crowd who came to hear him preach
Jesus was asked by the rich man what should he do to be saved, Jesus answered take all you have and give it to the poor
and to his disciples he informed that it was easier for a camel to slip through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven…
And in the beatitudes I seem to remember something about the poor inheriting the earth
In Mary’s Magnificat wasn’t it the mighty being pulled down from their seats and the rich being sent empty away…
and reading the Epistle of James…well you can sort that out for yourself…but according to Christ (if you believe the gospels) unshared wealth is not God’s reward but a stumbling block to salvation.

 

[royal_archer]

Jesus shared out the five loaves and fishes with the crowd who came to hear him preach
Jesus was asked by the rich man what should he do to be saved, Jesus answered take all you have and give it to the poor
and to his disciples he informed that it was easier for a camel to slip through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to go to heaven…
And in the beatitudes I seem to remember something about the poor inheriting the earth
In Mary’s Magnificat wasn’t it the mighty being pulled down from their seats and the rich being sent empty away…
and reading the Epistle of James…well you can sort that out for yourself…but according to Christ (if you believe the gospels) unshared wealth is not God’s reward but a stumbling block to salvation.

I interpret “giving it to the poor” a bit different than others. In that I feel it is possible for rich people to use their wealth for the good of the community and help more poor than if they gave it away. Of course there are a few different type of rich people. Those who build buisnesses and earn money through management and coordination of others are different from those who work hard and have proven themselves in a way that they get large salaries. And they are different from those who manipulate or take advantage of others to get something for nothing, I would throw day traders and many politicians into this group. When people think of the rich they think of this group and that is who I think is referenced in this scripture. I don’t think the same applies to the other two groups who contribute to society as much as they get in return.

 

[royal_archer]

Good question. I don’t know.

I suppose my statement is more idealistic.

I wanted to invite people to our house for dinner with us. But to be honnest, I didn’t know who to invite or where to start. (also my wife had issues with inviting people in but that would be a whole other thread…) Perhaps our churches/priests should be more active in helping the parrish know who needs what help. I understand the embarasment factor but I am sure it would be ok for a priest to call other parishoners to ask for their help.