Which is better for society: Capitalism or Communism?

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sarah_anne_628 said:
I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that the terms liberal/conservative and right/left do not mean the same things in modern day America as they once did here and around the world.

So traditionally speaking, it would be correct to call Fascism right wing. It would not, however, be correct to equate this form of right wing with the right wing of today’s United States.
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haha, have you watched Sean Hannity lately? 😉
 
I’m a little loopy from medication to bear with me here:
😛

One thing that bothers me about this conversation is it seems to focus on large government. .
What if we changed the focus of social programs to local government…city or county (depending on population). Does it alter anyone’s stance…particuarly those (of us) who are resistant to government social programs.

For my part, my stance does change a bit. I am opposed to most things the federal government does. Most of the things the federal government has its fingers in is best left to more local government…the state…and even more so-counties, cities, neighborhoods (depending on population levels).

I think that the local population would be able to serve the needy of its community far better and more efficiently than the federal or even state government. Furthermore, I think that the local population would be more willing to pay more taxes or give more if they see their money stay in their communities and they have a say in the matter.
 
sarah_anne_628 said:
This is along the lines of the reply I was going to post.

The left has made it perfectly clear that they want no part of religion in governent…(and I’m not saying it should…that’s not what this is about)…so why would a left-leaning, social thinking person want or expect the government to be concerned with the will of God as Jesus was. It was only by the power and will of God that Jesus was able to perform this miracle.
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I guess I am not quite sure what you are driving at here. I am a left leaning, social thinking person and I want and expect my government to be concerned with the will of God as Jesus was. There are some Christian democrats out here, Sarah Anne 🙂

Can you explain your premise here?

The democratic party has been hijacked and there are a lot of us Pro Life Democrats who want their party back. The Republican party has been hijacked too and I think a move back toward the center for both parties would be in everyone’s best interest.
Just my two cents…
 
sarah_anne_628 said:
No, I don’t have television (I can watch DVD’s and videos, but no cable).
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well either go to a friend’s house or listen to Limbaugh on the radio for a while… its been very scary on the right, my friend.
Of course I am joking about the Fascist part but only half-Joking :eek:
 
sarah_anne_628 said:
I’m a little loopy from medication to bear with me here:
😛

One thing that bothers me about this conversation is it seems to focus on large government. .
What if we changed the focus of social programs to local government…city or county (depending on population). Does it alter anyone’s stance…particuarly those (of us) who are resistant to government social programs.

For my part, my stance does change a bit. I am opposed to most things the federal government does. Most of the things the federal government has its fingers in is best left to more local government…the state…and even more so-counties, cities, neighborhoods (depending on population levels).

I think that the local population would be able to serve the needy of its community far better and more efficiently than the federal or even state government. Furthermore, I think that the local population would be more willing to pay more taxes or give more if they see their money stay in their communities and they have a say in the matter.
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I think that’s a very valid point and I am inclined to agree with you on that.
 
Having been asked my politics…
I am a Christian Socialist. I am a pacifist. I am an internationalist.
Fortunately there is a small Christian Socialist element in both the British Labour movement and the British Liberal Party. I tend to vote for candidates who closely represent that opinion. In our parliament the issue of abortion hangs on a free vote. All the parties are divided on this issue. Christian Socialists in the Labour Party are pro-life. as are many Liberals and Conservatives…so I have options in who I vote for.
I am a supporter of the ideas of the Worker Priest movement in France and I am still attracted to Dom Luigi Sturzo’s Catholic Action in pre-Mussolini Italy. I have no ethical objections to married priests, to female priests, to mass in the vernacular, to the Church off-loading some of its wealth in programmes to bless the poor…I am wedded to the principles behind Vatican II and disturbed by the religious right and its failure to obey the second great commandment.
Dominus vobiscum
 
rmcbride77 said:
well either go to a friend’s house or listen to Limbaugh on the radio for a while… its been very scary on the right, my friend.
Of course I am joking about the Fascist part but only half-Joking :eek:
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😛

I have in the past listened to alot of talk radio. But I don’t really like the hateful tone of Limbaugh, Hannity and the like. They do crack me up though. Now I only listen if I happen to be with my husband…he’s real into talk radio (and he says he likes NPR because he likes to know what the ‘enemy’ is saying…lol)
But he’s deployed, so it’s been months since I’ve heard anything that they’ve been saying.
 
sarah_anne_628 said:
😛

I have in the past listened to alot of talk radio. But I don’t really like the hateful tone of Limbaugh, Hannity and the like. They do crack me up though. Now I only listen if I happen to be with my husband…he’s real into talk radio (and he says he likes NPR because he likes to know what the ‘enemy’ is saying…lol)
But he’s deployed, so it’s been months since I’ve heard anything that they’ve been saying.
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haha well I have to admire his loyalty to an administration that has done nothing but screw over the military, active duty and veterans alike…(pardon my slang), a president whose Dad got him out of Viet Nam and even then he ducked his National Guard duty most of the time…

but I digress… my hat is off to you and your husband for blind loyalty at least
 
PoliSciProf said:
In a way, this is a false dichotomy. Economic approaches are only part of what a good society requires. Other posters have already mentioned that a mixed regime is the best in practice and I concur. The problem with capitalism is that it must say NO to some profits. The failure to do this along with a tendency to look at the short term and the prioritize the private is what makes capitalism undeserving of three cheers as Irving Kristol (Bill’s dad) wrote many years ago. In other words, some sort of virtue or moral sense of the whole is needed. (By the way, it gets two cheers because it is connected with democracy and the fact that markets rather than planning works best in a complex society and supports growth with helps the least advantaged.Socialism fails in practice (but not totally) but it appeals to higher sensibilities. There is a deep yearning for community that make it appealing. Yet it produces inefficiencies and perhaps even hubris. What is probably the best is some sort of regulated capitalism that respects free markets and creates safety nets for those who are victims of the creative destruction of capitalism. Sounds like the New Deal to me. Or, if you prefer, it is akin to polity, Aristotle’s most practical good regime. As the Stagirite put it. a regime that respects the rule of law and in which both the rich and the poor feel that it favors them is the most practical regime. In more modern terms, the middle class is to be encouraged. This requires a statesmanship that is not ideological but pragmatic. False dichotomies just make understanding the political more difficult.
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Excellent assessment. Great post. Thank you.
 
rmcbride77 said:
haha well I have to admire his loyalty to an administration that has done nothing but screw over the military, active duty and veterans alike…(pardon my slang), a president whose Dad got him out of Viet Nam and even then he ducked his National Guard duty most of the time…

but I digress… my hat is off to you and your husband for blind loyalty at least
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thank you.

his loyalty is not to the administration, it is to his country.
 
Can you carry out Christ’s second great commandment and wrap yourself up in any nations flag ?
My country right or wrong must by any understanding of the Gospels run contrary to the teachings of the universal church and Jesus call for us to love all our fellow men and women.
Remember God so loved the World…not just our bit of it !
 
sarah_anne_628 said:
thank you.

his loyalty is not to the administration, it is to his country.
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Of course, I wasn’t questioning that 🙂 , I was referring to your statement that he likes to listen to NPR to hear what the “enemy” is saying…I took that to mean the enemy is the “left”.

I was just pointing out that the “right”, as represented by the current administration, was not the military man’s best friend. Their lack of support in terms of equipment, pay and veteran’s benefits is appalling to me. I come from a military family and it makes me a little angry to think about how our troops and veterans have been treated.
 
I am on the ‘left’
I am a pacifist
I am also a Catholic
Am I therefore ‘the enemy’ ?
I come from a very military family. Grandfather, father, brother, nephews (one just back from Afghanistan). I understand the pull of patriotism. I too was brought up waving the flag ( and burying the dead under it). It is just that given the choice between what Jesus asks of us and my county demands I chose Jesus.
Thou shalt not kill has no qualifying adjectives.
Take all you have and give it to the poor was not simply a suggestion.
Love your neighbour is not a request.
Being a Christian is never the easy option.
 
Peccavi said:
I am on the ‘left’
I am a pacifist
I am also a Catholic
Am I therefore ‘the enemy’ ?
I come from a very military family. Grandfather, father, brother, nephews (one just back from Afghanistan). I understand the pull of patriotism. I too was brought up waving the flag ( and burying the dead under it). It is just that given the choice between what Jesus asks of us and my county demands I chose Jesus.
Thou shalt not kill has no qualifying adjectives.
Take all you have and give it to the poor was not simply a suggestion.
Love your neighbour is not a request.
Being a Christian is never the easy option.
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In Sarah Anne’s husband’s defense, I believe he said this in jest… I don’t think he thinks the left is the enemy 🙂 He may disagree with our politics and our philosophy but I don’t think he takes it so seriously that we are actually enemies; its just a good natured verbal joust… 😃
 
rmcbride77 said:
In Sarah Anne’s husband’s defense, I believe he said this in jest… I don’t think he thinks the left is the enemy 🙂 He may disagree with our politics and our philosophy but I don’t think he takes it so seriously that we are actually enemies; its just a good natured verbal joust… 😃
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You are correct. It was in jest. I should have made that clear. He, nor I, have anything against people for having different views-religious, political or otherwise. I apologize if relaying my hubby’s smart allecky comment came across as insensitive and/or aggressive.

Peace.
:o
 
Both Laissaiz-faire capitalism and the Marxist model of Communism are destructive
 
No worries, Sarah Anne. He sounds like a guy with a great sense of humor. We all need more of that!
 
Many Apologies Sarah-Anne to you and your husband. I confess to being a bit too touchy about things military having been raised by a regimental sergeant major in a flag waving environment.
I am not a Marxist, though the Capitalist system did provide Marx with the ammunition to attack it - much as it has today. I think Jesus got it about right when he observed you cannot serve God and money.
 
I was raised by a seargeant too, Peccavi. Haha I feel your pain!
 
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